Hoosier

Yeah I noticed that as well. There have been quite a few times when Minneapolis beat Chicago by like 20-40 inches. Obviously Chicago has done that too, but not as many times.

Believe it or not, the greatest differences between Chicago and Minneapolis happened back to back. 1916-17: Chicago 23.7", Minneapolis 84.9" Difference: +61.2 Minneapolis 1917-18: Chicago 64.1", Minneapolis 30.8" Difference: +33.3 Chicago

Beach time

A little follow-up on this... In 1991, ORD crossed 6" on December 2, while MSP crossed 60" on December 5.

I went no, but the notion that it's even on the table is pretty crazy. Fwiw, I did some research and there has never been a year when Minneapolis reached 60" before Chicago reached 6". Possibly the closest time was back in the 1991-92 season when MSP was at 60.9" and ORD at 7.5" as of 12/5/1991.

True, forgot about that. The last temperature record broken in Chicago was back on November 10, when both the record high and record high minimum were broken.

Can't even do warmups right this winter.

60s would be better. Might as well go all-out on warmth in times like these.

So this is a subject that gets bantered about from time to time, and I'd like to get some input. I think most of us here share the perception that these types of systems have not been occurring in the subforum as frequently as they used to. But as they say, perception is not necessarily reality. I wonder if there is a convenient way to objectively determine this or if we're just left to our own recollections. Let's side with our groupthink though and say that clipper systems are occurring less often. What are some potential reasons for this, and is it just a temporary down cycle or is there reason to think that this could be some kind of new normal?

Bank

The lake enhanced stuff that we get on the backside may be a top 5 event locally this winter.

This what you mean by "new indications"?

Let's go for the Yellowstone eruption. Nobody will care about winter then.

Always count on DTW to score if it's not MSP.

Not sure if it will actually play out this way, but there's like a couple different zones of snow on the models. Not really a continuous band.

I also wouldn't worry about the seasonal snowfall averages rapidly plunging in the immediate future. They probably would in a situation with a substantial amount of warming from the current averages, but as you posted, the lower Lakes/OV area hasn't warmed as much as other areas.

Beavis, the average annual snowfall for Chicago actually went up a little bit on the 1991-2020 normals compared to what it was between 1981-2010. You can be dissatisfied with Chicago winters, and there's no doubt about December trending worse especially in recent years. But so far, that has not really impacted the average annual snowfall in a negative way.

I was going to look at snowfall to date and through various upcoming dates, but have at it. I'm sure this craptastic start to January (and for the forseeable future) is starting to bring some things into play.

If December 2022 seems like the worst ever, what did you think of Decembers between 2018-2021? December 2022 wasn't even close to being in the 10 least snowy for Chicago. I looked it up a while back and it was something like 35th from the bottom, give or take.

Ok, here's a futility mark for Chicago. Haven't had a 2" calendar day snowfall yet. 1920-21 and 1921-22 are the only 2 without one. My grandparents were toddlers/young kids back then and probably not quite old enough to understand what was going on, but imagine being a snow lover back then. What a brutal back to back.

Good catch. That's what it is. If 35.1 ended up being the mean January temp at the close of 1/31, then it would be the warmest January on record for Milwaukee.

As long as I can see my breath outside, it looks like winter. So just about every day in DJF.

No idea how they made that mistake. Something like this is extremely easy and straightforward to look up.

I can't entertain the big dog futility record for Chicago unless we get to mid February with very little additional snow. Come to think of it, one of the sad things about this winter so far is that there hasn't even been any futility to track. First measurable snow and first inch of snow didn't happen too late, and December was sort of a run of the mill below average snow month. I guess we could keep an eye on where January ends up, as there's only been 0.2" so far this month at ORD. Long way to go though.

I was looking at Milwaukee's stats for the first 9 days of January and thought to myself that I bet there have been warmer starts to January. Turns out there have been. At 35.1, the first 9 days of January are 5th warmest on record for Milwaukee. 1880: 38.9 2007: 36.9 1939: 36.1 1992: 35.6 2023: 35.1