sojitodd

Please no severe here for any time soon-especially this weekend. The last storm (with the 4 tornadoes in Ohio), the front trees were just trimmed the day before-and still had a branch come off and put a hole in a porch roof. The tree behind my place and the neighbors was knocked down rootball and all. Just a three foot deep and wide hole in the ground now. Fortunately there was only one direction it could fall without causing any major damage, and it fell exactly that way, to the north, taking out only a section of a hedge. I really don't want any more power interruptions and tree damage for a while. /end complaining *I would like some nice garden variety boomers though, just not the really severe stuff.

It is so damn sad that so many people who survived this horrific tornado are now succumbing to their injuries. I hope this is about the last of it, and I hope nearly everybody else who is injured is able to pull through and recover. Just a damn shame, especially for the families and friends. I guess this is to be expected with this tornado, but it still sucks.

Thanks for this reply JoMo. These are all good explanations imo and really help one to understand this whole tragedy a little better.

I wouldn't have felt uncomfortable either, except for including it with the other stuff I posted. I was thinking of making a separate post about it, and then saw that you had already done just that. I just did not want to combine the two(the technical aspects and the human impact stuff) in the same post. To me this is just a huge historical event-the deadliest single tornado in 64 years(probably since 1936 since the Woodward tornado was probably separate tornadoes imo)- just an extraordinary event and I want to know as much as I can about it. No single community has suffered this kind of loss of life since Tupelo and Gainesville in 1936-75 years! And it was not a 'mass casualty at a single facility' thing-it was just a massive tornado tearing through a town. Why was it so deadly-was it just that much stronger? I think it just has to be. Especially when so many other towns have been hit by large tornadoes since the thirties and nothing really approaches this one except for maybe Woodward and a few in the fifties.

I was going to include this in my last response and thought better of it, and now here you come and do it for me. lol. I didn't want to seem insensitive given the other stuff I was discussing, but yeah, I still want to know that info too. I just think it has to be over 210...given the amount of destruction and the death toll, plus that nine story hospital shifting on it's foundation(and being built to withstand 300mph winds and being not in the middle of the damage path) Are they still looking through the area to look for any signs of damage that would likely to have resulted from winds in excess of 210 mph?-I am not sure what that would be though, actually..

Ugh. So that brings it right back to the 142. Just still hard to believe that nearly 150 people died in this thing. And 3 million cubic yards of debris? -Sounds like something from a bombed German city back in World War Two! Hard to fathom it all. I can't bring myself to read the latest dr./responder account-the first one was traumatic enough to read.

I just knew you were going to post this-you seem more 'obsessed' with a final official peak value than I am(and yeah, I want to know too). I know it is just an estimate, but it is the 'official story' for the historical record...so I am waiting for it too. It can't be just 'over 200 mph'.

Well that is just awful. At least they have accounted for all the missing and that uncertainty is gone. I hope this is not too morbid or out of line, but does this mean that when they said they had 142 dead, that some of those remains turned out to be the same person? I am just asking because they kept specifically saying that they had 142 sets of remains, and now it is officialy 134 dead? With the horrific descriptions from the survivor's stories that you have posted, I could see how that could happen. I do not envy the people who had to deal with doing the identifications. Hopefully this closure is one of many that will help Joplin move forward from this historic tragedy.

BTW, the problem with the colors not matching is when they are overlayed-you are blending colors so they change-if you look at the colors individually(by ef#) they match the legend. Why I did not grasp that fact immediately, I don't know. *edit..nevermind, I see where Tornadytony already posted it. I missed that part.

I know..it is hard to believe-the ef5 is nearly 3 blocks wide near the high school-you very rarely see ef4 damage that wide-that is nearly as wide as the f4 damage in the Wichita Falls map. Good point about the death toll. Not to be morbid, but I wonder how a plot of known or estimated fatality locations would correspond to that map? I hope this gets 'straightened out' so to say regarding the ef5 'zone' and the maximum 3 second gust/wind. This is all going to be part of the historical record for this extreme tornado-they should do the best they can to get it right. This tornado is going to be the defining event as far as tornadoes go it seems.

I agree with your skepticism, but it still makes for one hell of a mesmerizing and incredible map!

Actually I think I saw a study of this tornado where there were more than five homes getting f5 ratings in that subdivision, and some of them were not adjacent.. ..anyway I just hate it when maps have ambiguities..(I was a Urban and Economic Geography major in college)..it just pisses me off to no end. *I do get what you are saying though Josh...I was shocked to see that swath of ef5 and it does seem to be almost incredible. Not what I expected at all. I expected the 'spotty' thing as well, hot a solid 2-3 block swath(isotach) for 3.5 plus miles.

I am wondering now too, given that they have the efo and ef1 markers in the far right of the path in the same swath, but there is no ef0 marker/color on the legend. I am now not as sure-maybe a mistake was made. It still appears that they have a continous swath of ef5 damage, but it may not be accurate. That and the colors not matching up, and the same color apparently being used for ef0(not on the legend but on the map) and ef1(on the legend and on the map).

The colors match for me briefly as i zoom in and out-and then go back . There are five distinct zones/swaths and there are five choices on the legend. The swaths themselves are marked as well with the appropriate ef marker. I am not saying the map is 'right' or 'accurate', but what I am stating is what the map shows. I can't say if it is correct or not, but I can clearly see what that map shows, and it does show a continous swath of ef5 damage from 2-3 blocks wide for nearly 3.5 miles. Whether this is the case or not, I don't know-but that is clearly what that map shows imo. I think it is important to note that there are clearly five swaths, and only five identifiers on the legend-ef1 -ef5. How else could you explain it, unless they made a big mistake on the map? *there is no ef0 on the legend, but at the far end of the track, they have the symbol/marker for ef0, but it is in the same color swath as the ef1 marker is....???? I wonder if maybe there was a mistake? They do not have the ef0 on the legend as far as I can see? hmmm....

The colors do match when you zoom in and out-they change-and that is certainly a separate swath and is defined from the other areas by the ef markings. If you zoom in it is unmistakable. That is what us on the map. There are five distinct swaths to match the five choices on the legend( there is no ef0 on the legend). I am not saying this is what is true in reality, but that is what is on the map-no question about it. *typing/keying bad because of sliced right hand from working in yard yesterday with no gloves *it does say they are estimates and may not be accurate down to the 'sub neighborhood level' -so it does have some kind of disclaimer.

If you zoom in, it definetely looks like a 2-3 block line of ef5 from about the hospital to just short of Duquesne-nearly 4 miles. They have a darker color that goes the length-where they ef5 markers are-and it is a different swath than the areas given the ef4 and ef3-if you zoom in it is continous and about 2-3 blocks wide. the ef5 and ef4 damage swath is much wider than even the Wichita Falls tornado-- nealy 1/4 mile wide for over 4 continous miles. *the ef4 seems to start just before Shifferdecker...and the ef5 seems to start just after S. Maiden lane, right above the H for the hospital-it looks to be about 3 blocks wide around the Missouri/Ohio ave areas.

Well back on post 467 is where they discuss the 'upgrading' and that is where those 225-250mph winds were mentioned. If they mentioned that(someone from the NWS) then you would think they would incorporate that into the max wind value-why mention it otherwise? But who knows. We have had 198mph, then 'in excess of 200 mph, and then the mention of the 225-250 mph in the article right at that time. From what it said, the 'in excess of 200 mph' was also still another 'preliminary'..so who knows? If they really think 225 to 250 is correct as stated , then I hope it is listed officially as along that.

I wonder how a map of the damage(ef wise) would compare to the (f scale) map of damage they had for Wichita Falls? I remember the f4 damage was very wide on that one-I imagine the ef4 damage on this one would be even wider. I bet Ed M. knows well the map I am talking about.

That is the official toll, but they also said that the 142 includes 'partial remains', and that there is a chance that some of the remains listed separately may actually match up to single individual persons. This whole thing must be traumatic for the search and rescue people and the people working at identification. I don't know how they do it.

The worst parts of the BridgeCreek/Moore?OKC tornado were a bit worse than the worst parts of the Xenia tornado(Windsor Park and parts of Arrowhead subdivision)imo. I think you had a car in Moore found half a mile from where it had been parked-I don't think you have quite that level in the Xenia tornado as bad as it was. And the damage to the high school was severe but no worse really than that in Plainfield with that high school, and several others. You had buses and tractor trailer rigs thrown on top of buildings, but nothing that big thrown half a mile like in Moore, or having semi trailers blown 1/8th of a mile, like in Joplin. If you look at the actual damage in Xenia, once it got out of the first subdivisions and into the city and then northeast, the damage does not strike one as being more than ef4/f4 or ef3/f3. There were very few of the older houses in Xenia proper, or the newer houses in the northeastern part, that were completely obliterated off the face of the earth-there was severe damage, but you could see the remains of a house there. This Joplin Tornado sounds at least as bad as just about any. The Jarrell tornado came to mind because of how strong and wide it was, and the short path-but the slow speed really messes that one up for me. I would say of the three Xenia would be not quite as strong as the other two. Just my two cents.

The really sad part of that rising death toll was that the latest 6 found did not sucumb from injuries or were unidentified who were then ID'd-from the news story I read they found the six bodies in the debris field while clearing debris. Even after so many grid sweeps and all.

Don't know you at all JoMo, but so glad you are ok and dodged the bullet with this. Many many people here were very worried for you, especially given the horrific nature of the destruction and the strength and scope of this monster tornado. My best wishes for a good recovery from this ordeal for you and your town.

I hope so. If they had the right street, then the damage appeared to be minor there. In that immediate area(three residential streets) there were no blue tarp things or signs or any roof damage at all-but a few blocks south and east you could see the blue tarps on roofs start and then the obvious significant damage.

I think most will turn out ok and be reunited with friends, relatives, etc. But...the last I heard there were still a number of unidentified dead(30 or so), and some of these may turn out to be among those. Also when you see the particular circumstances of someone's disappearance(sucked out of a demolished vehicle, etc) then you know they were transferred to some hospital somewhere, are in the morgue, or are still to be found out there. In cases this bad, there may not even be whole bodies and all. Very very tragic and just such a bad case scenario this time. Such a strong, quick, rainwrapped tornado that just happened to develop and then explode and max out directly over a heavily populated area. And the thought that many have had(including myself) that we would not see a single town fatality number like this again without a mass casualty event...goes right out the window..with a lot else this tornado season.

Well the tornado did not follow the nice perfect contours of that map(not knocking the map) and the windspeeds/damage rating at different points is going to vary, given whether or not it is on the periphery, etc.etc. Given what was said to be JoMo's street-it looks to be in the minor damage area. The school about 1/4 mile directly east was listed as damaged, not one of the four schools destroyed-just damaged to some extent. Also looking at different pictures, aerials, video, etc., it looks like he just escaped the worst of it-very bad streak of damage just to the south of where he is thought to have lived. It did not look like major damage(roofs off, etc.) from what I could tell where he is supposed to be. From the aerial video, there are areas in the path of that map that are shown to have little damage(like the blue storage shed area directly north of where JoMo is thought to live).