psuhoffman

@Maestrobjwa I think you’re not getting what I’m saying. One anomalous result in one season at one location is not indicative of a climate shift. It’s just a fluke. Look at 2010. Baltimore got 32” more snow than Albany NY that year. Was that some indication the climate had shifted and Baltimore was snowier than Albany or was it just a one year fluke anomaly?

I don’t know how to get that map but I could run the numbers. Give me some cities and I will tell you what their average is v Baltimore over that period. 2018-2025

But you picked 3 different locations where in one season they got more snow than Baltimore. One year. Over a longer period (10 years or more) none of those locations had more snow than Baltimore. That isn’t how climate works. One storm in one season is a fluke. If New Orleans got more snow over a 10 year or 30 year period then we can have this conversation.

We are due for another negative cycle of the AO/NAO. However, don’t assume that fixes 100% of this. We had a very favorable long term cycle of the NHem long wave pattern from 2001-2016 and the sad fact was the mid Atlantic only has “average” snowfall during that period. NYC and Boston were setting all kinds of snowfall records though! This period was very similar to the pattern of 1958-1971 but the positive snowfall anomalies shifted further north and we were south of most of the snow. Similarly we were due for another god awful period with an unfavorable PDO/AO coinciding, but just like the last favorable cycle didn’t produce as much snow as previous ones, this bad cycle is producing even less snow than previous ones. So yes we will get a better period sometime with a run of a more favorable PDO and AO and it will snow more than it has the last 10 years. But don’t expect it to suddenly go back to what the results were in the 1960s or even what they were in the 2000-2016 period. The downward degradation of our snowfall will continue with shorter term highs and lows within the longer scale trend. Below was our mean Dec-Feb h5 from 2001-2016 and yet all we got from this was near mean snowfall. We should have been way above avg snow (like NYC and Boston were) with this pattern.

One specific location getting more snow in one specific season is a fluke. If you pull back and look over a 10/20/30 year period it is not snowing more to the south. One storm and one year is a fluke. An anomaly of short term randomness within the longer scale actual patterns. Same way 2010 was an anomaly for us, not some indication we get more snow than places in upstate NY that got less snow than Baltimore that one season.

That’s my take also. Using one cherry picked location (where a single fluke storm hit) from one season to say “its snowing more to the south” is flawed methodology. If you pull back and use even a 10 year period or longer then it becomes apparent it is not in fact snowing more to our south.

DCA: 14.8" BWI: 20.1" IAD: 23.3" RIC: 11.8" SBY: 17.7"

The only "sustained" blocking over the last 10 years (sustained being more than a one week transient episode) were January into early Feb 2016, March 2018 and mid Dec to mid Feb 2021. ETA: During the Dec-Mar period

Are places south of us getting more snow, or did some location south of us simply get one snowstorm at some point that we missed and you got frustrated? Because I am not finding these places south of us getting more snow. Average snowfall the last 10 years BWI: 12.31" DCA: 9.28" Salisbury MD: 9.49" Richmond VA: 6.66" Raleigh NC: 3.16" Charlotte NC: 1.88"

I've seen that long range snowfall monthly/seasonal anomaly map look like that a lot. And in reality over the last 20 years it has looked like that...look at some of the snowfall anomaly plots for this century. I think some of that is probably just the model reflecting the changes due to warming, and the fact that the "averages" it's using to calculate what is "normal" snowfall are lagging due to the warming. Look where the low and high anomalies are around the entire hemisphere. Higher anomalies to the north, lower along the south...what you would expect if climate zones were shifting north (which they are) in the means.

Below are the mean h5 anomalies for all the above normal snowfall months at BWI since 2000. What our ideal "snowy" pattern looks like changes a bit through the season. In December the pacific is much more important, with the most important anomalies being the EPO and AO regions. Later in winter the NAO anomalies are more strongly correlated with snowfall. Across the board the AO remains the most consistent predictor of snowfall probabilities. December January February

Some stuff we might find useful as we head into winter While February remains our snowiest month by the means (due in large part to 2010) January is the Winter month with the best odds of being above normal snowfall since 2000. Odds of an above avg snowfall month since 2000 at BWI Dec: 28% Jan: 40% Feb: 28% Mar: 20%

Jan to Feb 2016 was a legit blocking regime. Shame we only cashed in once but it was a big one at least. March 2018 but dunno if March counts But we had great blocking from mid December to early Feb 2021. It produced a great winter up here but nothing but perfect track rainstorms for DC that winter. That was one of the more depressing seasons in terms of wondering how much damage to DCs snow climo warming has had. No excuse for a single digit snow season with this h5 for the heart of winter!

It’s very worth it. It’s written like a text book on snowstorms. Get the expanded edition that has the extra volume that goes into the dynamics behind the storms.

Sorry I made my position clear. I can live with what I’m doing. Do what you think is right.

I made my choice. Do what you have to do. The weather doesn’t mean that much to me compared to what’s going on.

Sorry you’re gonna have to ban me. Permanently. I’m on my hill and I’m willing to die on it.

Things have definitely warmed after the 2016 super Nina and stayed in a permanent warmer base state due to the persistently torched pacific basin. Whether that is permanent is the question.

Some Nina’s overproduce. 1999-2000 for instance had no business being an above normal snowfall winter given the predominant long wave pattern. We just got lucky. So conversely when that season is in an analog set I warn people a repeat of that pattern could easily result in a single digit or worse snowfall season.

That’s another year that underproduced. I am not saying it should have been a blockbuster like it was to our north. We will always struggle and be on the southern or western fringe of a lot of storms in a Nina. But the fact they all totally skunked DC/Baltimore was somewhat bad luck. I think if you repeat that seasons pattern it’s another with a 75% chance we would do better. Again not like 30”+ better but I bet that kind of pattern yields a near median snowfall outcome more often then what happened that season.

He was the leader of that band for sure but it wasn’t just him.

Remember in 2009-10 we had a hecs in December and a 1-3” snow in early January and by Jan 20 some were complaining the winter was becoming a letdown.

I agree to a point...but there have been several winters where my best snowstorm happened before December 15 and so I will take what I can get...but you're right when we time up great patterns outside mid winter...that's not good for maximizing potential...but since we don't have any control over that I'll just take whatever comes. If my memory serves, and if you are talking about that same early April storm I am... it was a problem with the energy trade off and cold air press related to the wave in front. From 5 days out that lead wave was weaker and supposed to be a small snow threat for Maryland. At one point I was even on the northern edge of a 2-4" snowfall projection from that little west to east boundary wave. But as that lead wave trended more amplified it pushed it north...but also had the corresponding effect of suppressing the wave behind it. Less energy left over, but more importantly an even greater cold air press, which crazy to say for April, was not what we needed. In the end the lead wave amplified too much and squashed the wave behind it south of us. I remember having this discussion with people that week...they were confused how a wave could be suppressed when temperatures weren't actually THAT cold and it was April. But suppression is more about the flow than the temperatures. And having high temps in the upper 40s when its sunny in April actually is VERY COLD...and indicates how dry and suppressive the flow is. Plus...had it been precipitating it would have been plenty cold enough to snow.

There were 3 dominant patterns that winter. The first 1/3 of the snow season was cold but typical Nina on that without a strong STJ and not a lot of Atlantic help big snow was hard to come by. The coast got clipped by an offshore bomb and we got a couple minor events back here. It could have been better though. I doubt much worse. the Mid Jan to late Feb pattern was bad. But it wasn’t as bad as we can get in a Nina. The poleward pac ridge extending into the AO domain provided some opportunities. Duel waves can work when cold presses. We had 2 legit threats. One fell apart and the other under produced. I got 3” from the one wave. But it could have been better if it was more organized or timed better. But it wasn’t a total shutout type pattern. More typical Nina bad. then of course March was unreal. We just missed 2 storms before the March 20 one hit. Then we missed another legit window in early April. Yea I know April but one wave gave southern PA 8” (I had about 2 here) and it’s not like those were areas that have a significantly better April snow climo the wave just went 50 miles north. Then the next wave got suppressed! We actually would have snowed had it now been squashed! Overall if we had those same 3 patterns repeat I’d put a 75% probability we get more snow than we did in 2018.

I think the analog years were for the December’s which would have made that the 2017-18 winter