SnowGolfBro

His general thesis is actually not that far off IMO. But the length of the post just makes it hard agree with or disagree with. He should have gone with alcohol kills people and is considered essential. Shoes don’t kill people and shoe stores are considered non essential.

I think Eskimo Joe hit the nail on the head. If the orders are open ended a few weeks from now support for them with drop significantly. But if over the next couple weeks there are some concrete plans and dates being rolled out that would go a long way to help people psychologically at least. Obviously this is happening in some places now. Using VA as a local example, if we still have shelter in place orders in mid May without any concrete plan for reopening, then i think support for the order will be less than 50%. No need to throw anything at me. It is just an opinion.

Well maybe we should post guideline compliance monitors at every hole. There are 26 million people out of work. I’m sure they need something to do.

They have four carts for four people. I hope u are joking because if you are not and people really think this is some sort of “violation” God help us all.

I golf every week weather permitting. We instituted some really great social distancing/surface contact measures. Food is only on a to go basis delivered outside. No more than two people in the locker room or pro shop at one time. Then on the course we encourage everyone to take their own cart if they must ride, but encourage walking. We cut up some pool noodles and put them at the base of the flagsticks (ball never actually goes in the hole and flagstick never has to be touched. No raking of bunkers. But even taking all those steps we get constant complaints from the neighborhood Facebook groups demanding we shut down our course over “social distancing”. The real problem is they are unhappy people that are infuriated by people enjoying themselves in their line of vision.

That’s an interesting question. Perhaps early on. But maybe by summer they would loosen the restriction. I guess wait to see what Hogan announces.

No golfer would be happy without golf so i think that’s a reasonable assumption. Otherwise i won’t comment on it until we hear more. But it sounds like my yearly Bulle Rock trip may be back on!

I read the tweet. Sounds like they are going to open the courses with no restaurant service. That makes sense. Some places (like gyms, indoor sports arenas, restaurants) seem like they are obvious places that would be harder to open and maintain some social distance. Playing golf is no different than going out to exercise or jogging or walking your dog in my opinion.

Most places I’ve played people have been doing a good job of social distancing. I play with my kids and wife. We hug and high five on the course. Which from a distance could look bad, but you don’t social distance from your wife and kids unless you want bigger problems lol

They closed a lot of the county run and state run courses. But yeah general public and private courses have been open. Albeit with fairly strict social distancing.

Smart move Governor Hogan. This one never made sense to me in the first place. If you walk the golf course u never have to get within 20 feet of anybody. Let alone 6 feet

Social distancing would be everything is open and we all are responsible for avoiding handshakes and physical contact where possible. “Lockdown” is i own a restaurant, i want to open but am not allowed. Or i have kids i want to take them to the playground, but am not allowed. But i can use a different term if it is creating confusion.

Please show the data that the lockdowns have worked. And please describe how the socioeconomic consequences are meaningless in your support of the lockdowns.

We have tons of data. A lot of it is jumbled and unclear. I’ve made my recommendations and given my thoughts based on trying to put together a very complex puzzle. What data are you basing your comments on? Covid Deaths? Cases? Economic turmoil? Risk assessment? All of the above and more I’m sure. So your conclusions are just as valid as mine. We aren’t going to know all the things we would like to know for a long time. Scientific studies long into the future is the information we would all love to have right now. But we aren’t going to get it. We don’t know how many people have had Covid 19. Could be 50 million people have been exposed. Could be some other number. We don’t know how many people will be depressed permanently by the response to the virus. It’s an inexact science trying to come up with a workable solution. I’d say 100% back to normal is not workable right now. And I’d say the lockdowns aren’t workable for much longer. So the answer is somewhere in between and that is subjective. There isn’t some perfect formula unfortunately.

We won’t know for sure. And we will never be able to protect everybody. Who said I’m bored? I work 50 hours a week from home. I have twin five year olds that i am helping with home schooling, and trying to keep happy during a time of great unrest. There is no perfect solution to this crisis. But there is an optimal solution. And lockdowns that destroy the lives of tens of millions of people is not the optimal solution in my opinion.

I am calculating the risks of the situation as I understand it. The virus is a factor. How deadly it is, how quickly it spreads, are some more at risk than others, etc. The damage to people’s lives through Great Depression level unemployment, mental health, suicide, etc is the other factor. I offer this solution. Quarantine the elderly and immune compromised for 30 days. During that 30 days, incrementally begin opening parts of society that have been shutdown. Start with activities deemed the least risky. During that 30 days and then the following 30 days encourage good hygiene, hand washing, social distancing wherever possible and masks when using any essential services (because even the elderly and immune compromised will need to use essential services). After 30 days reassess if it is safe for the elderly and immune compromised. After 60 days reassess social distancing, etc. During this time continue to improve testing capabilities.

The point of those arguments is not necessarily to compare the number of deaths from viruses (flu deaths) or activities (car accident deaths). It’s to compare our tolerance to risk, specifically risk of death from our actions. People engage in all kinds of risky behaviors. Sometimes for thrills, sometimes to make a living and various other reasons. In the case of Covid, because it is particularly deadly and brand new the appetite for risk is very low. That is completely understandable. We are all dealing with the same reality. On March 15 my fear level of Covid was high and i supported all of the measures that i now support repealing. Not because the reality of Covid has changed, but because I’ve had time to understand the virus and steps i can take to limit my risk, while continuing to live my life close to normal. Others feel there is no safe way for society to continue until they have a better understanding of the virus and the risk associated with the virus. No one is wrong in my opinion, we just have a different calculation of the risk in our minds.

Then i will be wrong and the lockdowns will continue.

U are right.

Agreed at this point in time. I realize I’m in the minority on this board and public opinion. But i do think that will change in the coming weeks. May 15 is the date i have circled for when public support will begin to wane for widespread lockdowns.

At some point individuals have to be able to assess the risk for themselves. Just like people have been doing everyday for a long time with various other risk factors. Virologists can give us great tools to help us make those decisions. But i don’t think they should be setting public policy in the long term. If logical scientific methodology says we need 90 additional days of the current policies, then i would weigh that against what i believe the consequences of such policies over 90 additional days and make a decision. I’m not arguing that If u lock yourself in your basement u are less likely to get coronavirus. I’m just saying sooner rather than later that has to be an individual decision and not a collective one.

I think “well” would be defined as doing no worse than GA was doing prior to reopening. So perhaps take a snapshot in time on 4/24 and then reassess compared to that snapshot on 5/5. If there hasn’t been any significant increase in hospitalizations/deaths then you could say the decision turned out “well” i suppose.

What is the SHOULD criteria in your opinion?

I think we need to set some baselines for what we need to see to agree on when we should open up. Let’s use VA as an example. What number of daily deaths/new cases is reasonable in your opinion to open back up? Is it zero, is it 5 deaths a day, 10, 20 etc. You may look at the facts on a specified date and say it’s too soon and i may think we waited too long. My point is we need some agreement on what levels of the virus/deaths is acceptable vs what warrants additional lockdowns.

Im a reasonable guy. I know from my interactions with friends and family that they are fed up with the lockdowns. They have lost jobs, savings and in some cases hope. I would be okay if they put a restart date/plan out to the public even if that plan didn’t go into action until May 15 for example. I’m not it in a terrible position. I still have my job, albeit with a pay cut due to the virus, and my health. I’m not pushing the desire to “open back up” for selfish reasons. Not by a long shot. It’s for my family and friends who are all suffering both financially and mentally.