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chubbs

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Posts posted by chubbs

  1. 17 hours ago, ChescoWx said:
    A member asked for an analysis of 100 degree days by decade since the 1890's. This is normalized as days per station per year (total 100°F+ days across all stations in a decade, divided by the number of station-years of data in that decade) rather than a raw sum — otherwise a decade with 22 stations would look "hotter" than a decade with 4 stations just from having more thermometers out there, which would be misleading.
    The pattern holds up clearly at the county level, same as it did for individual stations: the 1930s stand out sharply at about 1.1 days per station per year — nearly double any other decade — consistent with the well-documented Dust Bowl-era heat. From there the rate declines fairly steadily, bottoming out near zero in the 1970s and again in the 2020s (0.01 and 0.02 days/station/year respectively), with the 2000s-2010s sitting in a modest middle range around 0.11–0.15.
    Worth flagging directly: the two lowest decades in the entire 130-year record are the 1970s and the current 2020s — and the current decade of the 2020s (partial decade).image.thumb.png.c38bca0abda6d99f235a30ed82a2b22a.png

    Nope no dust bowl in Chester County, just Phoenixville with a bad shelter location. Philadelphia and West Chester don't agree at all with your plot. Not surprising since once again you are confounding station changes and weather. East Nantmeal and West Grove are a little different than the City of Coatesville or West Chester don't you think? 

    Screenshot 2026-07-22 at 05-43-34 xmACIS2.png

    Screenshot 2026-07-22 at 05-48-55 CLIMOD 2.png

  2. 18 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    AI knew the Chesco COOPs are included in the SE PA climate division but did not feel it material enough to change the statistical fact that the raw data at Chesco was cooling the same as the surrounding stations so again no need for further cooling. Plus with all those AM TOB readings at Coatesville and West Chester why didn't NCEI apply some warming adjustments? Again only non-stop chilling adjustments. 

    Clear that you do not understand the science behind bias adjustments. Bias adjustments are not made in an ad hoc manner or to raise or lower the temperature of a station. Bias adjustments are only made to correct station changes. If the station observation time doesn't change, then no adjustment is needed. Adjustments are based solely on raw data. A station has to change with time in a manner that is different from all other stations that experience the same weather. The goal is to include weather and exclude station changes when calculating long-term climate trends.

    The only way to evaluate bias adjustments is to inspect raw station data at the time of the station change. Here's an example using the West Chester 1970 move. The old West Chester COOP shut down in December of 1969 and re-opened in May of 1970 at a new location. Subtracting Coatesville from West Chester isolates the relative temperature changes at the two stations at the time of the move.  The raw data shows that the new West Chester site cooled by significantly relative to Coatesville after the move. That's all the proof needed to identify a major station change at either Coatesville or West Chester.  We know from raw data from Phoenixville that West Chester is the guilty party. The Chesco raw data clearly shows that West Chester cooled significantly after its 1970 move.

    The NOAA bias adjustment is in complete agreement with the raw data from Coatesville and West Chester.  That shouldn't be surprising. NCEI is using all the raw data that experiences the same weather as West Chester, hundreds of stations potentially. I've looked at multiple large station changes at the Chesco COOPs and NCEI nails every one.

    Note that NCEI is asking a similar question as your AI analysis. Does West Chester respond to local May 1970 weather in the same as the other regional stations? However the NCEI procedure is much more targeted than AI, is using more data, and it is using the right conceptual model. The temperatures at West Chester do not vary independently of the temperatures at Coatesville or other stations. This gives the NCEI analysis much more power. It can correctly flag the West Chester move as a major station change. While your AI analysis can not. 

    The raw data is the final arbiter and in this case NCEI is clearly superior to AI.

     

    WestChesterMove_rawdata_NOAA.png

  3. 19 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Of course @chubbsWidening the interval to 1941 - 1975 does not change the previous answer. Both series show a real, statistically significant cooling trend on their own — this isn't noise, and it fits the well-documented mid-century cooling that shows up across the eastern US from the 1940s into the 1970s.

    Are the two trends statistically the same?

    This is the more interesting question, and the answer depends on the test:

    • Naive comparison (treating the two trends as independent): the difference in slopes (−0.66 vs. −0.46 °F/decade) gives t = −0.92, p ≈ 0.36 — not remotely significant. By this test they're indistinguishable.
    • Paired comparison (the right test here, since both series describe the same regional weather in the same years — they're correlated at r = 0.83, so a paired test on the year-by-year difference is more powerful): the difference series trends at −0.021 °F/yr (−0.21 °F/decade), 95% CI [−0.042, +0.001], p = 0.057.

    So the more rigorous test lands just on the wrong side of the conventional 0.05 cutoff — the station data cooled somewhat faster than the division average, and that gap is close to, but doesn't quite clear, statistical significance. The honest read: the two trends are not clearly, statistically different so no need to cool the raw data further as they are already a strong match.

    Repeating what  I said above garbage in, garbage out.  Your analysis and AI's conclusion is faulty. You aren't telling AI that the Chesco COOPs are included in the SE PA climate division. You can't conclude that Chester County is the same as the non-Chesco stations if you include Chester County with the other stations. Second the regression slopes depend on the end-date. You need to include enough years before and after the moves for the station moves to be fully reflected in the regression. For the period 1941-1975 I get a much bigger difference in slopes -.69 for Chesco and only -.32 for the Division. Excluding Chester County from the Division would lower the Division slope further. Finally AI already has a Pvalue of 0.057, i.e, there is a 94% chance that Chesco is different using your faulty comparisons. Correct the errors and the P value will shrink considerably.

    My biggest complaint though is that your statistical model is inadequate. Temperature observations are highly correlated across a region because all stations experience the same weather. The Chesco and SEPA stations should be very close. Instead the chart clearly shows that Chesco COOPS cool significantly vs the SEPA Climate Div. The different temperature response by the Chesco Coops is closely associated with the timing of station moves. End of story.

    SEPA_COOP_minus.png

  4. 19 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    So we did a little fact check on Charlie's claim that the raw data cooled more than surrounding stations.....The facts are that the raw cooling data is well supported by the surrounding regions! Below is the AI review of the raw data for the 3 stations in question. 

    What that regional record shows for 1946–1970

    Using Penn State's State Climatologist office data (built from this same NCEI divisional dataset):

    Metric Official SE PA Division (Chester/Berks/Montgomery/Lancaster region) Your 3-station Chesco composite
    1946 annual avg 54.0°F
    1970 annual avg 52.4°F
    Trend −0.093°F/yr −0.083°F/yr
    Total change, 1946–1970 −2.23°F −2.00°F
    0.365 0.352
    p-value 0.0014 0.0018

    That's a remarkably close match — both in direction, magnitude, and statistical significance. Individually, Phoenixville 1E (−2.34°F, p=0.0008) and West Chester 2NW (−2.48°F, p=0.0014) track the regional figure almost exactly; Coatesville 1SW is a bit weaker (−1.17°F) and only marginally significant on its own (p=0.055), but still points the same direction.

    Bottom line: Yes, the cooling is well supported by the surrounding region. This is a case where the "raw" county data and the "official" broader regional data agree closely

    So @chubbs if the cooling in the raw data is statistically the same as the surrounding data why did NCEI choose to chill the raw data further in each and every year between 1946-1970??

    Nope. The Chesco COOPs cool significantly relative to the SE PA Division data from the PA climatologist. Regression isn't a good tool because the station changes are sudden not gradual and you picked an interval that started after the initial Coatesville move and ended before the West Chester move took full effect. If you widen the interval to 1941-1975, the difference in slope is large.

    Per table below, comparing the five years before the first move and the five years after the last move, the Chesco COOPs cool by 1.7F relative to the SE Pa Division. Note that the Pa SE Division includes the Chesco Coops so the two items compared are not independent. For that reason it is not surprising that the delta for the SE PA is slighly smaller than ABE. 

    Funny seeing your persistent effort to dismiss what the the raw data from Chester County clearly shows.  The 3 stations each cooled significantly after the 1945-1970 moves: first Coatesville cooled relative to Phoenixville and West Chester; then Phoenixville cooled relative to Coatesville and West Chester; and finally West Chester cools relative to Coatesville and Phoenixville.  Clear as day in the raw COOP data.

    SEPA_COOPavg.png

    COOPavg_ABE_SEPA.png

  5. 1 hour ago, bluewave said:

    It temporarily removes warmth from around the equator in the ENSO regions. But the heat release following each super El Niño finds its way into the adjacent oceans and land areas.

    You can see how the oceanic and atmospheric heat increases following each El Niño back to 1997-1998.  This is why the global baseline temperature sets a new record during each super El Niño.

    The temperatures pullback slightly in the following years but a well above the previous years which were neutral or La Niña. 

    The 1997-1998 event below was followed by warming in the Arctic. The heat release from the ENSO regions in 2015-2016 founds its way into the 30N to 60N mid-latitude regions. This is the persistent -PDO that we have seen since around 2019.

    Also notice how the Nino 1+2 and other regions didn’t fully release all the heat following the 2023-2024 before recharging with more heat only 3 years apart. So this is a first in our modern climate era. That’s why when I saw the record WWBs in the spring it wasn’t a surprise when the ENSO forecasts started showing another super El Niño so soon.

    So the big to watch story going forward following this strongest event on record is what areas will see the greatest temp jumps in the late 2020s? 
     

    IMG_7041.png.0dd98781435eb59521bc66278567b045.png


    IMG_7040.jpeg.fa64e64fb3a6f61eeeacdb1e02b56704.jpeg

    Plenty of ocean heat to be re-distributed, as ocean heat content increased at a rapid pace in the first quarter. The ocean as a whole is warming much faster now vs 97/98.

    heat_content2000m.png

    • Like 1
  6. 17 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    I had AI review the raw unadjusted data of those 3 stations from 1945-1980, The Bottom line: the direction, timing, and general shape of the cooling at Coatesville 1SW, Phoenixville 1E, and West Chester 2NW was found to be consistent with the raw data of surrounding stations during the well-documented mid-century cooling seen across the Northeast and eastern U.S more broadly. The magnitude at your stations is plausible relative to hemispheric averages — which fits, since this region was one of the more prominent expressions of that cooling episode with more local variance than a regional composite.

    Your AI isn't very well informed about the changes with time at the Chester County COOP stations. That's on you. Garbage in, Garbage out.

    The raw data clearly shows that Coatesville, Phoenixville, and West Chester cooled by roughly 2F after station moves in the 1946-70 period.. As discussed above, The roughly 2F cooling at the 3 Chesco COOPs matches the 2F cooling relative to ABE. The station move cooling isn't a small change. Very easy to see in the raw data. 

    Coat_ph_vsWC_ABE_phl1941-54.png

    WestChesterMove_rawdataPHOE_NOAA.png

  7. Good 2-part blog from last year on Canadian wildfire history outlining the role of forest management and climate. Canadian forest fires are less numerous than in the past; but, larger and burning a wider area. The cause of fires has transitioned from mostly man-made in the past to mostly ignited by lightning today.

    https://thetradeoff.substack.com/p/north-americas-forests-used-to-burn

    https://thetradeoff.substack.com/p/part-2-many-of-north-americas-forests

    Canadafires.png

    • Like 1
  8. 21 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Charlie you keep avoiding my question for the years I am highlighting in the chart  1927-1951. There are 16 years before 1942.  To make my question clearer I updated the chart (see below) to add the delta between Allentown and Chesco. You again never answer the question so I will ask it again later. By the way in looking at the surrounding nearby stations at the Navy Yard and Point Breeze it looks clearly like opening of the more rural location with less runways and building etc. at the new PHL Airport resulted in the new site being 1.6 degrees colder than the neighboring Navy Yard in 1941 and continued to run at least 1 degree colder than Point Breeze every year through 1951. So you have to  wonder why NCEI failed to warm the new PHL airport site during those years due to the station move to a more rural/colder location? But even without the likely need to warm PHL for those years - the facts remain the same PHL was and is always warmer than average Chesco in every single year except one (1943) ! So I will try again - a simple question why is all of Chester County altered and adjusted to an average temperature for 17 years during this period to colder than Allentown PA?? This is 2 counties north and 50 miles away? Not just Coatesville Charlie - the average of all of these stations. Sorry Charlie in no world should the average temperature for those 25 years have Allentown at 51.8 and the all Chesco Avg. colder at 51.7  Why is NCEI correct based on their adjustments that Chester County should be altered and adjusted to be colder than Allentown for a quarter of a century based on these chilling alterations to the data? Can you answer that?

    image.thumb.png.c59ea2319158358d307ccd8d275c48e9.png

    Why is NCEI cooler than the Allentown COOP? Because the Allentown COOP is in downtown Allentown and runs warmer than the Allentown Airport. NCEI has Chester County exactly where it should be: warmer than the Allentown Airport and cooler than downtown Allentown.

    Per the Table below, NCEI does a much better job of tracking the Allentown Airport (ABE) than the Chesco COOP average. Two five-year periods are chosen: 1941-45 before the first big Chesco station move in 1946 (Coatesville) and 1971-75 just after the last move in 1970 (West Chester). NCEI is 0.4-0.5F warmer than ABE, before and after the station moves. While the COOP average cools by 2F relative to ABE. The 2F cooling matches the roughly 2F cooling at the individual Chesco stations and is completely spurious.

    Once again the raw data shows that, by removing station moves, NCEI is far superior to the COOP average.  

    As I said above the pre-1945 Chesco COOPs are very warm. It isn't only the City of Coatesville either. Phoenixville ran very hot on sunny days and West Chester was in a built-up town location. All 3 stations cooled significantly after post-1945 station moves. 

    Chesco_minus_ABE.png

    • Like 1
  9. On 7/11/2026 at 12:37 PM, ChescoWx said:

    Not sure where you are getting this assertion or I guess it may be a feeling... that "the average of Phoenixville, Coatesville and West Chester is as warm as PHL airport in the early 1940's. So let's as I always do go to the actual data for the Chester County stations vs the PHL Airport and the 2 stations relatively close to PHL prior to the temperature being recorded at the airport in 1941. Over the 25 years we are focusing on 1927-1951 the raw average temperature data of those 3 Chester County stations vs PHL was clearly always colder in each and every year!!  So sorry Charlie the average is most certainly not as warm as PHL at all. In fact  Chesco in those years is running as cold as much as 4 degree colder than the PHL stations. With during the entire period the average running between 1.1 and 2.5 degrees colder. We can now put to bed this false claim that Chesco was running as warm as the PHL airport area from 1927-1951. Of even more interest and brings additional questions is how the heck for most of those 25 years did NCEI decide that Chester County is actually colder than Allentown 50 miles north in Lehigh County??

     image.thumb.png.b8cb55a4aea7766dc63a8540ae8c6da9.png

    You aren't looking at the chart I posted. Per your table the Chesco COOPs and the Philadelphia Airport both averaged 54.1 between 1942-44. After 1945 the large cooling moves started in the Chesco COOPs. By the early 1970s the COOPs were almost as cool as ABE. Clearly shown in the chart I posted above. If you don't correct for station moves, the raw COOP data is unusable for climate purposes in this post-war period.

    Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept. The Coatesville stations below, 1930-1945 and 1949+ are very different. One is much cooler than the other and the local raw data shows it. You can't treat these two sites as the same station, an adjustment is needed. That's why NCEI gets the right answer for Chesco and you don't.

    Coat_WW2.png

     

    DoeRun.png

  10. 7 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

    The chart implies that the mix of stations is different depending on the year. Changing mix, alone, means one is not consistently calculating the same mean across time.

    Notice that Charleston SC and New Haven, CT are "rural" stations. There were large reverse heat island effects at 2 of the COOP stations in "rural" Chester County. Bottom-line US historical weather data is very inconsistent. It needs to be carefully analyzed not cherry-picked.

    • Like 1
  11. 5 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    The telltale sign of having no answer to the science/data is when someone like Charlie attempts to push the falsehood of something he deems "settled science". Science is of course never settled but constantly evaluated and tested which I do constantly. There is clearly no mistake in the table as it it actual validated raw data.....the real mistake is Charlie and NCEI thinking Chester County on average is colder than Allentown. Plus Charlie I love your line "between 1927 and 1951, the County COOP stations are much warmer than the county average" Welp I included all of the COOP stations so again exactly which station? since all are included above? Also, how do you know in fact during those years the county stations were according to NCEI in reality colder than Allentown? Real science over feelings FTW!!

    The science we are talking about is settled and you don't understand it.   The average of Phoenixville, Coatesville and West Chester is as warm as the Philadelphia Airport and the Newark Ag station in the early 1940s. The COOP average dropped steadily after 1945 due to cooling moves at Coatesville (1946,48), Phoenixville (1948) and West Chester (1970). By the early 1970s the Coop Avg had dropped to just above Allentown. NCEI was much more stable than the COOP average, staying just above Allentown the entire period. NCEI isn't fooled by station moves. The mistake you are making is assuming that the average of the COOP stations is a good estimate of the county average temperature. That certainly isn't the case before 1970 when the COOP stations are much warmer than the County as a whole.

     

    COOPAVG_phl_abe_noaa.png

  12. 14 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Revisiting that old topic that no one seems to be able to answer - not the why they did it - but how exactly or where exactly did NCEI look for their control COOP or analog station to support their chilling adjustments of the historical raw data for Chester County PA. Again we focus on the 25 year period of greatest adjustments to the raw data from 1927-1951. I think I may have found the station they use as the adjusted NCEI data is very close to this station. However, one big problem is this station sits a couple counties and 30 plus miles north of Chester County. I looked to the NWS COOP Allentown PA site which was the Allentown Gas COOP site. This station was the primary Allentown climate station prior to ABE. Of note NCEI chose to chill Chester County to actually lower than Allentown PA in 20 of these 25 years! Keep in mind again in 20 of 25 years there is no actual NWS COOP site in the county that was as cool as the post hoc NCEI County averages. So overall NCEI believes that Chester County is colder than Allentown....

    image.thumb.png.107f7848c002b7c79bf85bfbb0a67fa6.png

    You are criticizing an NCEI analysis you don't understand. Settled science no less. Station adjustments have nothing to do with the County Average temperature or the absolute temperature at any station. Instead they are made on an individual station basis to correct non-weather station changes like station moves. Plenty of station moves/changes through the years in Chester County that need to be accounted for.. We've discussed several of the biggest station moves in this thread. NCEI science nailed every single one. You haven't found a single problem with any individual NCEI station adjustment.

    The results in your table aren't surprising at all. Between 1927 and 1951, the County COOP stations are much warmer than the county average:  Phoenixville already in a warm location, ran much hotter than nearby stations on sunny days in that period and also had time of day bias; while, Coatesville and West Chester were both in built up city/town locations. Both stations cooled by roughly 2F when they moved to less built up locations in 1946/1948 (Coatesville) and 1970 (West Chester).

    The NCEI county average being cooler than the average of these 3 stations is a good thing, exactly what I would expect. Even today the average of Coatesville, West Chester and Phoenixville is warmer today than the county average. Much moreso in 1927-51 when all 3 stations were in warmer locations or ran warmer than today. 

    No the big mistake in your table is your value for the county average. You have Chester County as warm as the Philadelphia airport in some years. That's way off. Not even close. 


     

  13. 3 hours ago, GaWx said:

     
     Although US heat related deaths are rising and should continue to rise from GW, it’s true that far more people have died from cold than from heat (>10:1) and thus GW should in theory result in a net of fewer cold/heat related deaths there for a good while into the future. And this isn’t even taking into account any increases in food supply attributed to longer growing seasons and increased CO2 fertilization effect. So, CC clearly has some benefits regardless of the often emphasized harms that include rising sea levels, increased extreme flooding incidences, and more powerful tropical cyclone peaks/heavier rainfall from warmer temps holding more moisture and slower moving (on avg) TCs:

    Heat- and Cold-Related Mortality Burden in the US From 2000 to 2020

    The Yale University Institutional Review Board approved this case series

    Findings  This case series of 54 223 429 deceased individuals found that both low and high temperatures were significantly associated with mortality burden, with low temperatures associated with more mean annual deaths (45 992) than high temperatures (3414). However, the burden from high temperatures increased by 53% from the 2000-2009 to 2010-2020 study periods.

     The annual mortality count attributable to low temperatures increased by 7% between the 2000-2009 and 2010-2020 study periods, from 44 278 to 47 551 annual deaths. However, the annual mortality count attributable to high temperatures increased by 53%, from 2670 to 4091 annual deaths.

    IMG_0805.png.3004db6e89bb2c03d4d715bb8b4ab57c.png

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2841063

    You have to be careful in extrapolating to the future because the relationship between temperature and mortality is highly non-linear. The curve for mortality is very flat in the middle and steep at the edges particularly on the hot side. The reason more people die due to cool weather is the average temperature in the US is below the optimum temperature for mortality of around 70F.  The problem is that warm side mortality  rises very steeply with temperature.  The more we warm the more likely that increased hot weather deaths are going to outstrip cold weather benefits. Per the chart you posted, hot-weather deaths already  tripled in the US in the past 20 years.  Going forward probably better to assume the same percentage increase, i.e. another tripling in 20 years rather than a linear increase. Just a swag of course. Note that the US will differ from the London chart I posted. Same shape but we are more used to extreme hot and cold weather.

    https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/unraveling-the-debate-does-heat-or?r=27daj&triedRedirect=true

    https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/unraveling-the-debate-does-heat-or-982

     

    Screenshot 2026-06-24 at 16-47-34 Unraveling the debate Does heat or cold cause more deaths.png

    • Thanks 1
  14. 19 hours ago, bluewave said:

    Really impressive to see the Nino 3.4 actual SSTs just -0.45C cooler than the November 2015 all-time record and its only June. 

    IMG_6689.thumb.jpeg.a74a314e57ff8f619c430a68182d5a6d.jpeg

     

    IMG_6690.thumb.jpeg.45e08239fd2a479b2ab44bf8b8d8ed65.jpeg

     

    Thinking about ONI and RONI. Surface winds like trades are driven by surface temperature difference, so RONI probably more relevent. Precipitation and heat release to atmosphere from condensation are driven by moisture content. Warmer air holds more moisture so ONI is probably more relevent. Jet stream should have some ONI influence due to extra warming of tropical deep atmosphere from condensation. Will be interesting to see how the two factors play out.

  15. 14 hours ago, TheClimateChanger said:

    This is especially ironic coming from someone who normally claims NOAA’s modern records are bogus, adjusted, contaminated, or otherwise untrustworthy. But a lone 105°F reading from a high-elevation northern interior New York site in 1919, with surrounding stations reporting 88–94°F on the same date, is suddenly sacred scripture? And that was literally the only substantive change I made. The rest of the map is from Martz’s own website, just reassembled to show the most recent occurrence of a given high, with a couple of corrections for omissions (Maryland & NC in 2012) and updated to include 2025's record highs(map ends in 2024). Martz himself excludes 

    1O3tX08.png

    The deep dive in Chester County has made me very suspicious of older high temperature records in the US. Non-aspirated thermometers used back in the day are sensitive to shelter placement. It only takes one poorly sited station on one day to make a max temperature statistic misleading. Phoenixville in Chester County is a good example. Much hotter max temperatures than surrounding stations for 20 years in the 1930s and 40s. Well documented in this thread.  As you show above, Martz's chart of nationwide high temperature records has the same problem. This whole thread is about using inconsistent data past vs present, to present misleading information.

    • Weenie 1
  16. 11 minutes ago, GaWx said:

    Wow! The latest update for OISST (June 4th) has a massive warming for one day: 0.189C! That’s the strongest one day warming since way back on March 6th! The last 4 days have warmed a hair over 0.4C or a whopping 0.1C/day! That’s the fastest 4 day warming on this entire chart, even exceeding the ~0.36C of April 11th-15th. See far right side of the image below. The strong -SOI is doing its magic on its typically couple of week delayed basis vs when the strong negative strong started.

     This means the 6/5/26 RONI equivalent daily is already up to the +0.8 to +0.9 range!

     Implications for Monday’s weekly 3.4 update: at the very least an increase of 0.2C to 0.7C relative 3.4. There’s a good shot at an increase of 0.3 to 0.8 relative 3.4 if this continues to rise on the next 2 days’ updates:

    Check out today’s and last 4 days’ warming!

    IMG_0615.thumb.png.7396345ece723a9b4ae61aabf0dafdc1.png

    The recent spike has sent daily Nino 3.4 temps well into record territory.

    oisst2.1_nino3.4_sst_day.png

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 2
  17. 20 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    But of course during that 1978 to 2025 period Phoenixville 1E is warming at almost a 50% faster rate than the rest of Chester County. The Phoenixville area is about as least representative of the entire county with about 60% of Chesco lying at over 400ft above sea levelimage.thumb.png.ed8250364392707637e11b26a8d86bd5.png

    The mistake you are making is assuming that your viewpoint and calculations are correct without looking at the complete weight of evidence.. Over the 1978 to 2025 period Phoenixville warms at the same rate as Coatesville and NCEI Chesco. Its a red flag that you don't match Phoenixville or Coatesville or NCEI.

    No surprise either, the station network you are using is cooling with time. Well documented in this thread and shouldn't be this difficult to understand. You are giving "unrepresentative" Phoenixville a 25% weight in 1978 but only 6% weight in 2025. Devault, almost as warm as Phoenixville, also gets a 25% weight in 1978. Coatesville the coolest station in 1978 is an average station in 2025.  You are using a different representation of the County in the 1970s and 2025. Different again in 1945 with Coatesville, West Chester, and Phoenixville all in much warmer locations.

     

     

    Phoe_coatr_ncei78-25.png

  18. 13 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Maybe an even better example of the Urban Heat Island Problem at PHL Airport is to compare the airport to NWS COOP observations at Octoraro Lake on the SW border of Chester County at about 40 nautical miles due west of the airport. Octoraro Lake is a relative low elevation spot (260 ft asl) and that NWS COOP station is clearly seeing decreasing heat waves while PHL continues to have increasing "heat waves". The only material difference is rural vs UHI

    image.thumb.png.88029848981d86c1ab16792b54e7240b.png

     

     

    But your Phoenixville chart shows increasing heat waves in the same 1978 to 2025 period. There are other explanations for the discrepancy. Station changes at Octoraro Lake being the most likely. You've been making the same cherry-picked comparisons with PHL for a decade now. Invariably the story changes when additional stations are included. Its about time for a KPTW update:lol:

  19. 13 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Welp except for what you have stated before were the multiple moves from a relatively more urban locale to rural at Coatesville 1SW and of course the increase in elevation with the 1983 move to Coatesville 2W and then over to KMQS.......

    The Coatesville move from urban to rural occurred in 1948, well before the 1970-2025 period in the chart. Yes the Coatesville stations have different elevations, but there is little impact on annual average temperatures, hence the good agreement between the Coatesville series and NCEI over the 1970 to 2025 period.

  20. 3 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

    Inventing and mixing and matching  data I see - Coatesville is not the most stable station for those 55 years....heck they only have 13 years at 1SW and 25 years at another location 2W. That only adds up to 38 years over a 55 year span. There has been no Coatesville COOP data for the last 20 years!! 

    I knew you would find some reason to dismiss.  My stability assessment is based on comparing Coatesville to NCEI and other regional stations without station changes. Coatesville tracks NCEI closely. Yes there are three stations; but, the three stations are well matched for annual average temperatures; and, there are no major station changes. You would get the same answer if you used NCEI instead of Coatesville.

     

    Coatesville_NCEI.png

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