schoeppeya

Just now, madwx said:

You’re right.  I had misunderstood what had happened and made an argument based on it But my point still stands, calling the virus that does nothing but inflame things 

Agreed. 

31 minutes ago, madwx said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-56218684
 

Please read some articles like this and let me know what you think.  After you read a few like this you can see how terms like that can lead to racism and hate crimes

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/violence-against-asian-americans-why-hate-crime-should-be-used-n1258793

I thought this one was pretty fair too, probably because it was published before the media could blow up the white guy narrative.

1 hour ago, madwx said:

Language like this leads to violence against minorities like you saw in Georgia. If you have any decency you should stop using it 

The violence that has no evidence of being racially motivated?

Don't even disagree but at least pick a relevant example.

2 minutes ago, wxman_ind said:

You are misinterpreting me. I'm making no comment on what the park is encouraging. That's up to them. I'm saying quit being so melodramatic and saying it's akin to communism.

Apologies for the misunderstanding 

2 minutes ago, wxman_ind said:

Yeah we're becoming communist because they're encouraging mask use and to limit screaming.

Surely you recognize how silly it sounds to encourage people not to scream at an amusement park 

9 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Although your post wasn't directed at me, my answer is yes.  Honestly, we are probably at the point where a ton of states could remove mask mandates and not have so large of a surge as to threaten hospital capacity (especially since a good percentage of people would still choose to wear a mask even without a mandate) but so many lives have already been lost and we are still losing 1k+ per day on average.  Let's just wait another couple months.

I was hoping you would respond as well. 
 

Like at every other point of this pandemic, a clear plan or milestones to achieve and an obvious effort to make the point that we will return to normal would calm a lot of nerves about what the intentions are for mandates and restrictions going forward. And I guarantee more people would get vaccinated. Saying something like “well maybe if enough people get vaccinated you can gather with your family on the fourth” just pisses people off. 
 

I also wouldn’t mind it at all if Fauci said something along the lines of “we want to encourage wearing masks for the sake of continuity until every who wants the vaccine has had a chance to get it”

2 minutes ago, WaryWarren said:

Devoid of any other context Rand is correct. However, given the polls indicating that Republican voting individuals say they are the least likely to get vaccinated, and those same individuals were the most likely to claim COVID was/is a hoax and the most likely to resist mask mandates, I’m fine with keeping the theater open for a few more months until we get most people vaccinated.

I don’t trust the Trumpanzees to not simply lie about getting vaccinated and going maskless, creating yet another spike, thus further delaying my return to my preferred Golden Corral location.

I actually lol’d. 
 

You say you’re ok with keeping the theatre open a few more months until more people have been vaccinated.... do you feel like people generally agree that once everybody has been vaccinated who wants to be vaccinated we move on? (Obviously barring any major outbreak of a more deadly variant, which is highly unlikely imo)

2 minutes ago, janetjanet998 said:

Lots of storms over SE MS now with non-warned weaker couplets

 

the key word is LOTS...as in maybe too many for this to get really out of hand if storms have spacing issues

 

time will tell

For the time being, it looks like the perfect spacing to maximize the number of individual cells without non stop storm interference. We will see how that plays out though. 

4 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

I'm a physician,  it's literally my job to review the medical information and assess the risks and benefits or a particular intervention to make a treatment recommendation. Ultimately it's the individual's decision to follow the advice or not. 

I think the @winterwx21 scenario is interesting.  Since he already had covid I would say putting off the vaccine is a reasonable decision considering all of his individual factors but once we know more about the durability of the immune response to infection it'll be important to consider making a different recommendation if vaccine boosters are needed. I'm a little curious why guys medical recommendation changed from it coming from his cardiologist to now coming from his primary care.

Fair. I just don't specifically buy into "if someone doesn't get the vaccine it is because they are selfish/too dumb to understand risk/reward". And I don't think taking that stance promotes a healthy dialogue around the vaccine, which is something that could end up convincing somebody who actually needs the vaccine to get it. Actually,  I know for a fact that type of rhetoric stops people from getting it.  

20 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

I understand that there has been a narrative about vaccine hesitancy in the black community which is why I found the survey results that I posted interesting.  It turns out that only 25% of black people in the poll linked above don't intend to get vaccinated vs 30% of white people.

This would support the primary issue being an access problem rather than a hesitancy  problem.

 

Back to the discussion of why people that have access to the vaccine choose not to. It's one of fear, selfishness or poor comprehension of risk vs benefit calculation which goes back to fear. And I suppose there's a handful of people deep in conspiracy land. 

@winterwx21 can you link to the JAMA article that you referenced about the anaphylaxis rates.

You must be in a pretty successful position in life seeing as how you have all the answers to why strangers make the decisions they do.  

8 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Perhaps I missed it, but my issue with that poll, besides it being a small sample size, is the categories.  You're not capturing every african american in that "black" category right?  What about african american republicans or trump supporters or rural dwellers etc.  You can fit into multiple categories.  I didn't see how the "primary" category is determined. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/12/976172586/little-difference-in-vaccine-hesitancy-among-white-and-black-americans-poll-find

The poll I linked above said 35% wont take it or are hesitant. The one @purduewx80 quoted says 61% will get it. You start digging into the data on some of these and you can present it any way you want to, but its pretty obvious black people distrust the vaccine AT LEAST as much as white people, on average. The people who are upset about that are upset because it doesn't fit their narrative that the only people who distrust the vaccine are on the right. 

14 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

No question, and I do think the slight risk of the vaccine is worth it for higher risk people because the virus is a tremendous threat to higher risk people. We've seen how many people have died. The statistics are overwhelming is showing that most people that get sick enough with Covid to go to the hospital have overweight/obesity/underlying health conditions. And unfortunately, that's the majority of the population in this country. So this vaccine is a great and extremely important thing. But we do have a smaller percentage of the population that's at much lower risk, and for those people it's worth weighting the vaccine risk vs the Covid risk.

 

The other week there was a debate on here about anaphylaxis reactions to the vaccine. Well since then, a new study came out that was published in JAMA on March 8th. It showed that anaphylaxis reactions were 22 times higher than what the previous CDC report had showed. In this study, on average 1 out of every 4000 people had an anaphylaxis reaction. That is SO much higher than other types of vaccines. Yeah I know they inject you with the epinephrine to save you, but it's still a horrible experience to go through. That is one of the reasons I am leaning towards not getting the vaccine when I become eligable. I have severe allergies with a history of bad reactions to things. I am allergic to penicillin and many medications and have broken out in hives and had my lips swell. So combine that with the fact that I'm at very low Covid risk, and not getting the vaccine can be considered a logical option. I talked with my primary care physician about this a few days ago actually, and she agrees with me. She talked about how I already had Covid and my body handled it easily (very mild symptoms that went away quickly) and that I continue to be at extremely low Covid risk due to much stronger than average heart/lungs and immune system due to the exercise program I'm on, and also that I have to be concerned about the higher amount of anaphylaxis reactions they're seeing with this vaccine since I have severe allergies. So she said I should consult with the allergist if I do consider getting the vaccine and I can weight the risks/benefits, and it's not a big deal if I decide to not get vaccinated since I'm at very low Covid risk and I don't have to worry about my parents since they're vaccinated.

 

So I definitely don't like hearing that people are selfish if they decide to not get vaccinated. There are plenty of people that have legitimate reason to not get vaccinated. People in the low risk group group can make a decision and it's not a big deal because most high risk people will be getting vaccinated. The pandemic will be coming to an end whether the 30% or so of people that are at low Covid risk get vaccinated or not. It will be going to a low level situation (an endemic similar to flu) that will not be a big deal and we'll be able to get back to normal life with a low amount of Covid circulating.

 

The thing that people that are not Covid vaccinated or concerned about other dangerous viruses popping up in the future can do is, simply get into shape. Because we know the studies are absolutely overwhelming on this. You look at a place like Vietnam, where they have a super low 18.3% overweight/obesity rate, and they have only 0.04 Covid deaths per 100,000. While the United States has one of the very highest overweight/obesity rates, 67.9%, and we have 152.49 Covid deaths per 100,000. You can go on and on with examples of countries with high obesity rates vs countries with low obesity rates. The statistics are absolutely overwhelming. Here is a quote from Dr. Tim Lobstein of the World Obesity Federation...

"We now know that an overweight population is the next pandemic waiting to happen," said Lobstein.

 

It's very sad that something like this horrific pandemic happened that didn't have to happen if most people kept themselves in shape, but of course tons of people die of heart disease for the same reason. Hopefully more people will take their health seriously in the future.

Holy hell you mean you took the time to come to a thoughtful, researched, and doctor informed decision on whether you should take the vaccine or not? Somebody fry this man. 

19 minutes ago, purduewx80 said:

It's far more complicated than that, but your racism is showing loud and clear.

Here's some relevant info that's a little dated (2006):

Reference: internet, the graph below speaks for itself:

You're going to pretend that even the worst smartphone somebody has in their pocket hasn't eliminated the case you're trying to make? You don't need home internet or a computer to make an appointment to get the vaccine. 

You forget about apps like Uber on those smartphones that also make the case you're trying to make irrelevant?

There are actual studies within the the last month that show African American's aren't getting the vaccine at higher rates because they distrust the vaccine/government. Here is one of them. A quick google search will turn up dozens more. 

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/black-americans-distrust-covid-vaccine

What is incredibly degrading is that you really think African Americans aren't capable of setting up an appointment to get the vaccine and then coordinating a way to get there if they actually want it. So who is racist?

20 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

I think one thing this thread doesn't touch on enough is the regionality of the way we think about health in this country. I touched on this last year after my move, but it was shocking going from an Ann Arbor office to Charleston the difference in health measures. Almost all of my coworkers in Michigan were in some sort of fitness regimen (crossfit, pilates, long distance running, biking, etc.), salad bar with tons of options & wipes at the desk to help cut down on germs during flu season. I move here and absolutely no one is in any of those things, they eat fried chicken & BBQ regularly, and almost everyone dips. They're professional and college educated, but it's obvious health is not a priority except among young people who want to keep their beach body. It's hard to pass those kinds of public safety measures and expect widespread vaccine use when health just isn't the priority you see in other areas of the country.

In my experience you can get as granular as you want with that. There is definitely regional differences but also city by city, office by office, group by group differences as well. Where I am now (Carmel) is definitely more active than OKC was but not nearly as much as NWA (Fayetteville) was. 

But I do agree with you. There is definitely a... difference of priorities? across different areas of the country. Even in regards to being work centric vs leisure centric, etc. 

10 hours ago, mattb65 said:

Black people not getting the vaccine appears that it may be more of an access problem rather than interst in getting vaccinated, hopefully the state, local and federal programs will improve this problem. 

 

I am all for appealing to selfish people by making enjoyable things like traveling by plane internationally contingent on being vaccinated.

My mistake, re: the republican white men, I fixed it

Lol. Because all black people are too poor to have cars and access to the internet, right? The mental gymnastics people do to make "inequality" an excuse for any race related stat is impressive.

I am still so confused how somebody not taking the vaccine makes them selfish. You can take take the vaccine, it will protect you, so why do you care? Generally, the people I know who are very concerned about the virus are concerned because they themselves don't want to get sick. And they want other people that are less scared than them to give up their businesses, normal lives, and put things in their body they aren't comfortable with to make them feel safer. That's fine, its just so old seeing it lauded over people as some type of moral superiority when in reality, I can't imagine something more selfish. 

Since generally the only logic people can respond with is hypotheticals about variants, anecdotes, or imagined worst case scenarios, can the vaccine not just be the line in the sand where once everybody who wants it has had the chance to get it, we move on with our lives?  When is the risk going to be an at acceptable level to just move on? 

18 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

As vaccination opens up to younger/less vulnerable groups, I wonder if we are going to run into a "why should I bother" issue if the metrics keep improving.  Having a large supply of a 1 dose vaccine doesn't hurt, but generally speaking it seems like it may be tougher to convince a healthy 30 year old than a 70 year old especially if the metrics keep getting better.

I think this has always been the case. There probably isn't a lot of 30 year old who know somebody their age who've known anyone with a case serious enough (hospitalization) to push them to get it. 

14 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

The cdc guidance if anything has been late to the party. Other scientists have been suggesting that there should be "benefits" to vaccination. The data is becoming more clear that the vaccine not only imparts good immunity but also reduces onward transmission. 

You dont want to construct this reality where you get a vaccine but then still have to do all the same shit you've been doing for the last year. If anything, that would increase vaccine hesitancy. 

I'm pretty sure it's just looking at your scenario as a low risk activity. 

And we are pretty close to the point where all "68 year old obese diabetics" will at the very least have had the opportunity to get it, correct?

I think you make a really, really good point. My mother is pretty strongly convinced she is not going to get the vaccine and one of her reasons is she isn't convinced the needle will move back the other direction towards normalcy anyways. A great way to shut down the conspiracy theory anti vax stuff imo is to make it clear that less cases means less restrictions. The stuff where people talk about being masked for the next five years based on hypotheticals even with the vaccine doesn't do anything to encourage people who are on the fence to get it.

16 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The last sentence in that paragraph is a potential problem, imo.  Would like to see some clarification on that.  If you happen to have a vaccinated person with mild covid (since the vaccines aren't 100% effective in preventing mild illness) who is visiting with a more vulnerable, unvaccinated person, that person could be in trouble.

If you have covid you probably shouldn't be visiting people. 

1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

I'm not skeptical of the efficacy of diet and exercise for individual health. I'm skeptical that's a reasonable way to fight an ongoing pandemic. None of the major players in public health from what I can see have though to go down that road. And I'm going to defer to their wisdom here.

Comparing anti mask and anti vax rhetoric to this is really something though lol. 

I’ve never said anything anti mask or anti vax at any point during this thread. I am very much anti government mandates for those things because I don’t think mandates work and I think they automatically make it a contentious issue. I view masks a lot like you view exercise- I think they will help protect you on an individual level but I have been (I think rightly so) very skeptical that they would stop most people from catching Covid at some point. I do think it’s pretty clear at this point vaccines are going to do that, though. 

16 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

The same folks who were against/skeptical of social distancing, masks, vaccines, and any restrictions are the same folks pushing for excercise/diet mitigation. Just would like to point that out lol. 

You could also say the people who were blindly accepting new science about all of those things are the same ones skeptical about the science behind exercise/diet mitigation. Everybody has a lens they view the world through.

17 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

I'd like to see the study. But Spain, Italy, France and some South American countries are clear counter examples. 

Counter examples to what? The countries you mention are specifically listed in examples that supports the obesity case in the study. 

ETA: https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

2 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

As much as I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, we really can't just blame people for our country's horrible dietary habits. There are so many things we could do to control companies and corporations and limit how much unhealthy shit is everywhere. But I think it runs even deeper than that. I feel like there's just this culture of eating in America, where food is not just a means to stay alive, but also a source of entertainment; a way to destress, take a break. Sadly, the exact people that would probably benefit the most from being able to cook healthy stuff are the exact people who don't have that luxury of time. 

I don't think you have to make it a conspiracy theory to come to the conclusion that excess food consumption is part of American culture, just like excess consumerism is part of American culture. 

The reason this thread triggers me (for those of you talking about my post count and why I am commenting in this one) is I honestly never realized how many people there are in the country that truly want to sit on their ass, blame other people for their problems, and wait for the government to pass more regulations to fix their lives. I am as "progressive" as they come-a self labeled liberal who thinks healthcare costs are ridiculous and would love to see it be free, supports free college, and thinks life is harder on average for African Americans than white people.

But damn, at some point people have to take their own lives into their own hands. Yeah, it takes discipline, its hard, but you always have the power to take responsibility for your own life. This is coming from a former alcoholic who now spends about 14 hours a day making sure I can take care of myself and my family. And honestly, its exhausting to hear somebody wanting me to make ANOTHER change in my life for their protection or to keep them safe because they don't have the discipline or willpower to make ANY steps themselves to keep themselves safe. 

At some point, it doesn't matter whose fault it is that its easy to get fat, you just have to lose weight. At some point, it doesn't matter what mandates the government has or hasn't passed, you just have to wear your mask, keep your distance, and take the precautions you can to keep yourself and your family safe. 

1 hour ago, Angrysummons said:

Eating healthy food is a luxury anybody can afford. They don't too because of the need for stimulation and dopamine release.

As someone who tracks their budget and does a LOT of grocery shopping, it costs over double/month to a eat diet based in whole foods (what I would consider "healthy") than it does based in processed foods. To your point though, doesn't mean you can't lose weight or cut back consumption.

52 minutes ago, Stebo said:

A lot of people in California that have been treating this like it is no big deal, so it isn't surprising, though per capita Florida is still worse.

So then you're admitting strict government mandates don't work? Great, we agree they should be lifted then.

44 minutes ago, Stebo said:

As for anyone here who doesn't think there are selfish people doing whatever the hell they want, climb out from under the rock you have been under.

I haven't seen anybody claim there aren't some people doing that. 

8 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Or perhaps it's the fact that obesity is an industry in this country.

We can definitely agree with that. And eating healthy food is a luxury in this country that even a lot of middle class families can't afford. 

10 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Wow. Just wow

Can't come up with anything more thoughtful than that?

If you want to talk about how language like the post I quoted and gross over-generalizations and saying things on the internet you would never say to somebodies face leads to a lot of the behavior you claim to despise, we can talk about that. If you disagree, we can talk about that too. But regardless of how I feel about those "selfish" peoples politics (I don't agree with most of it), a lot of those people are my friends, family, people I grew up with, and people I know. And a lot of those people are the most caring, thoughtful, giving, selfless people I know.