RobertSul

4 minutes ago, Jonger said:

We had a poster try to use the old, "tell that to the X number of people who lost loved ones" card.

That's a fair comparison. 

I’m not responsible for what other posters post. 

8 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

All of them. Literally automotive voluntarily shut down, but everything else is running as is.

I’m having trouble finding any information online that supports this. Do you have any sources?

Just now, WestMichigan said:

isolated?  Per NHTSA drunk driving accounts for over 10,000 deaths a year.  That isn't isolated.  Not COVID19 levels, but tell those families drinking alcohol is ok and that death doesn't matter.  Same reasoning as the OP.

Thank you for that statistic. So with the social distancing in place, and in only 2 months, we have 6x the amount of deaths that drunk driving causes in an entire year.

Also, isolated in this case means “having minimal contact or little in common than others”. In other words: not causing a chain reaction. 

Just now, nwohweather said:

I see you're from MA, but in the Midwest almost all factories have been deemed essential. I know the company I work for has had no problems, we're even working in the NYC metro area currently.  

I moved back to Mass after living in Michigan for 15 years. But what factories in Michigan were allowed to stay open?

17 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

Well I think the whole issue is a lack of balance. So many of these governors look stupid in my opinion (looking at you Michigan) because THEY'VE ALLOWED FACTORIES TO REMAIN OPEN. I'm sorry but that's the biggest crux of the issue, you are unable to go to your cottage or even buy certain things at the store in some states, but can go work 8-10 hours in a factory with hundreds of people indoors.

I think we had to buy ourselves time, and we did that while saving hospital capacity. But holy smokes you're limiting peoples incomes in this instance as well as the economy's ability to produce and sell goods. Those are two very bad things

What Michigan factories were allowed to stay open? 

54 minutes ago, WestMichigan said:

I am not minimizing your point but as others have already said why not ban alcohol because of the drunk driving deaths?  Why not drive 55 because it will save lives?  Why not stop construction because of accidents on site that lead to death?  Why not ban nearly all fatty/sugary/salty/cholesterol laden food?  Why not ...?  You can say this about every death that has some cause that is preventable by altering our actions?  But would you want to live in that society?  This is the current hot topic but we don't say this about every other thing in our society that causes a preventable death.  Just offering a counter point to what you say.  The deaths are horrible don't get me wrong and come back with a reply saying that.

If someone drunk driving on the roads led to three other drunk drivers on the roads, and each of those led to another 1-3 drunk drivers on the road and so on, then you’d have a point.

Likewise, if COVID-19 was not contagious and was regulated to isolated incidents like in your examples, then we certainly wouldn’t have gone through all this trouble.

1 hour ago, nwohweather said:

That’s what SC is allowing. Outdoor dining only which I think is the right move

Especially as temperatures are warming up, this will be a great alternative. Hopefully they’ll also provide covering for rain. 

9 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

Mental health and suicide hotlines are up over 900% since this started.  Where is the balance between every life we can save from COVID-19 is worth the pain versus we don't care about the other lives being lost to suicide.  Somewhere there has to be a balance where some freedom is ok to help with one end of the spectrum while not getting the other end completely out of whack.  The media seems to be ignoring one class of death because it isn't COVID-19 and that is all that matters.

I’d imagine bringing home the disease and severely sickening/killing vulnerable loved ones would also drive up suicidal ideation, not to mention hospital staff dealing with an unending influx of patients, like this ER doctor in NYC.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1195656

On 4/27/2020 at 7:37 PM, Stebo said:

Yeah I have noticed more traffic when going to work over the last week. I just hope this isn't us unclipping from our parachute 1000' above ground.

With temperature forecast to be around 70 this weekend, I hope this ends up being a good practice round for people maintaining safe protocols as they venture out. 
 

The good news is that there appears to be an adequate amount of PPE for healthcare workers and civilians can now get masks at gas stations. 

9 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

If its going to be that cold, might as well root for the rare May snowflakes. Would make the 8th consecutive month with snow.

At this point why not make a weird year weirder. 

8 hours ago, hoosierwx said:

No one is arguing the merits of testing. You are talking about going from a half million tests per day to tens of millions of tests per day. I hope it can be done but it seems a little pie in the sky to me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

Lol people WERE arguing the merits of testing which is why I was responding.
 

But not everywhere is a high risk facility, so you wouldn’t need tens of millions a day. 

14 hours ago, hoosierwx said:

With all the assymptomatic cases it may be like trying to place a hurricane warning on the US coast based on one ship report in the Leeward Islands. I have my doubts there will ever be enough tests or people to run down every contact. We are about 6 weeks into social distancing and almost as long into the shut down and still getting record numbers. Yeah, there are more tests but still getting that many positives is concerning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

Asymptomatic carriers still test positive and just drives the case for more testing. You’re not stuck just relying on telltale signs like coughing and sneezing to isolate potential carriers.
 

Weekly or even daily tests at high-risk facilities like meat-packing plants would be wise - those who test positive are sent home for two weeks and the plant doesn’t shut down. 

13 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Testing numbers will be essentially useless. I'm almost annoyed that people talk about them. Deaths and recoveries are more important.

That’s like saying that Hurricane Watches are useless and people should wait until the death toll/structural damage numbers of a storm come in.

The death/recovery rates lag by a couple weeks from initial symptoms. If you have a sudden surge of cases, you can at least try to prepare a week or so in advance.

48 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Well the only way we're going to get testing is the same way states had to get supplies, the feds either dish out what tax dollars already bought, or sieze what states purchased with their own money, then dish the stuff out to private middle men under the auspice that they are the best supply chain we have and those grifters  basically ebay it all at a huge profit because it's legal to price gouge our tax dollars via the government but not our wallets in this country.  This is the most disgusting raping of this country I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of rapes of the tax  base by these fat cats.  I am disgusted period.  Anyone who thinks this shit's ok can just go screw themselves.

 

I’d hope all that medical equipment would have serial numbers that can be tracked throughout the process. 

7 hours ago, Hoosier said:

It's not that hard to believe, imo.  Think about a sprinkler system on a windy day.  You can start to feel some of the spray at a considerable number of feet away.

Not saying it would be a common way of catching covid-19, but possible if the circumstances are just right.  

A violent sneeze can travel at 100mph, and the virus can be transmitted through sneezing, so it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that particles can drift along a moderate breeze given that the protective aerosol remains intact.

There’s also impact load to consider - the more concentrated the particles, the worse  the potential outcome as your body might not have as much time to ramp up its immunological defenses against ‘x’ copies, before any multiplication occurs in the new host. I’d think a breeze would diffuse the particles so it also wouldn’t be quite as heavily concentrated?

Edit: I am not a doctor, let alone a virologist or microbiologist, and for all I know there might be an element of micro-shear in the wind that is likely to tear up an aerosol bubble. There are probably other factors I’m overlooking, but this is my best attempt at an educated opinion. 

15 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Large increase in cases in Ohio.  Could be a one-off that quickly settles back toward baseline.  Will have to monitor trends there in the coming days.

Some of those cases might be due to the 100 protestors who gathered outside the state house on Monday. 

37 minutes ago, Snownado said:

The media has given some people the impression that basically it's a death sentence if you get the virus, when in reality that couldnt be further from the truth. I believe people have been brainwashed to an extent.

30,000 people have died in this country WITH most states’ restrictions. 
 

What would you do if you had a heart attack, stroke, appendicitis, kidney stones, car accident,  organ failure, or any other deadly or painful malady that’d require hospitalization but all the hospitals around you were beyond capacity?

Not to mention those with chronic conditions which require frequent trips to see a doctor.

25 minutes ago, WestMichigan said:

If you like some country better than here why not move?  Everyone is constantly telling people to move north if they want more snow.  Same thing here.  If you want a completely different government move.  There is no sense staying in a miserable place when there is somewhere else that offers something far superior to what you have now.

We live in a society where change is cast by voting. I love this country and I want to see it improve, as do you, but we’re probably just coming at the solution from different directions.

With climate, you can’t change it by voting. Moving is the ONLY option. 

12 hours ago, buckeye said:

Rant done?  Good.  My fcking turn.  

If that's ALL you're going through right now....you are one of the lucky ones.    The truth is there are 22 million people laid off for starters and a vast majority already live pay check to pay check.  They're white, they're black, they're professionals, they're blue collar, factory workers and small business owners.  They have children, mortgages, health issues....who knows...but certainly not you...you have no idea what these people are going through.  The fact that you and others here feel the need to interject race and throw the race card at people who you've never met or seen before while you assign motives to their actions is disgusting.   It reveals more about you then any fantasy shade you choose to  project on them.   Just as we have been so easily cowed into quivering inside of our closed homes and shutting down the businesses we have spent our lives building....now we're perfectly fine with nuking the first ammendment.   It really is amazing.  Some of you people need a swift kick in the a** and a reminder of who you are and the country you are citizens of.

You  berate a blue collar guy at a protest who just lost his job and livihood because according to you,  it's the fault of his stupid life choices.  Yet there's no problem collapsing the economy and thereby killing off far more people... all in the name of heroic covid patients, the majority who've spent the last 30 years of their lives stuffing their faces with twinkies and smoking their way into pre-existing medical conditions.  Before you gasp with faux shock....all I'm doing is illustrating the other side of the cavalier argument YOU presented.  Today they protest as you shame them, tomorrow they put a fcking gun to their temple.  

We also need to stop this faux narrative that defending the economy is disregarding lives...it's just an attempt to use shame as a weapon against anyone who dares question the state's orders.  There are many studies dating back to the 1970's that show anywhere between 1000 and 35000 deaths for every 1% increase in unemployment.  That's not taking into consideration an unprecedented collapse like we are now experiencing.   

Much of the economic damage has already become systemic and continues to metastize.  It will last well beyond these ridiculous draconian shut-down measures.  People have been conditioned by fear and shamed into compliance.  They are still going to be afraid to fly, sit in a crowded restaurant, or go to a crowded mall for quite a long time which will extend the economic misery.  The amount of death as a result of the economic collapse will dwarf covid deaths.  This is just the beginning.  Many small businesses will never re-open, the housing market will most likely collapse,  the credit market will follow, and then the banks.  Believing the government can print its way out of this is going to show a lot people, very quickly, the 'joys' of socialism. 

Right now this may seem like nothing more than watching a netflix documentary while having to take a couple of weeks off without pay.  That's how a lot of the posters in this thread seem to act.  But in the end, it doesn't matter who you are, who you work for, or where you live, the economic collapse is your biggest threat not the virus.   Yet many here would rather worship the government and obediently follow policy  based on virus models whose verification scores make a 1997 dgex 10 day snowfall forecast look solid.   We will obey like good sheeple.   Good luck if you're counting on the government and their, "we're all in this together", mantra . 

As far as those stupid white trash people blocking the roads in Michigan...they're light years ahead in reality and clarity.   Is all lost?  Maybe, maybe not, but if not it's because we're only midway thru April.   

How's that for a rant

Go ahead and throw the weenies and flame away....I'd expect nothing less and quite frankly don't give a sh*t

You definitely bring up valid points. The thing is, we’re the nation with the highest GDP in the world, why is our safety net in tatters like those of developing countries? Same with our healthcare. I’m all for capitalism, but there has to be SOME redistribution - make the top too heavy and everything below gets crushed.  Too much equalizing and people don’t want to work as hard. There’s definitely a Goldilocks zone  between these two extremes. 

We’re all working through this virus and the ensuing economic impact together, and we all want the best. The fear is that this is unprecedented in the modern age, but certain parts of the economy (e-services, agriculture, delivery services, etc.) are continuing to hum along while other industries are in sleep mode. 
 

Vaccines and antibodies are being worked on in the meantime, and there’s never been a mass scale human effort to combat a virus like we have now. The main effort is to prevent the crash of hospitals not just for COVID patients, but those with ANY medical emergency... which can happen at any age. 

Once we get over that hump, things will gradually return to normal. 

I know it’s a time plagued with uncertainty, but we’re all in this together and we’ll all pull through. 

8 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

 I love Michigan but this minority that protested at the Capitol were pure idiots

COVIDiots

5 minutes ago, nwohweather said:

Nah I live in suburban Charleston, SC. I golf 3 times a week and swim daily because our government has not gone overboard on things.

But regardless these extreme rules are going to destroy the economy of Michigan. So yes telling people they cannot buy a bag of mulch or a gallon of paint is bad because that means less people going to work.

That’s the thing, many factories and companies are still running where it’s really going to spread, not a damn Home Depot. So what is going to happen is tons of people are going to be laid off at those stores, and then tons of people who make the product will be as well since only “essential” things can be sold.

It is a fine balance needed to get through this, because especially Michigan is going to be gutted by this as the auto industry is destroyed

Meat processing plants have stayed open, and they're starting to close down as a result of COVID spreading through the workers. So in those cases, not only are you having to close them off anyway, but people are unnecessarily sick and dying. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19

2 hours ago, nwohweather said:

If that's the line of thinking our country has I'd rather the coronavirus wipe us all out.  Just because there is a catastrophic pandemic does not mean you can tell me I cannot paint my bedroom while having to sit inside.  Or plant flowers and lay mulch around the house. You can take something seriously without giving up everything, yet Michigan has done just that.

Meanwhile Ohio has spearheaded the response in this country, has much more reasonable rules, and a much lower case count.  Governor Whitmer will likely, and deservedly lose re-election based on what she has done.  It does not shock me to see a Democrat go overboard on the rights of individuals, but it does sadden me.  What do you expect out of the same place where droves of people willingly give money to unions though.

Cause and effect. Ohio has much more reasonable rules because there’s a much lower case count. Had Whitmer rolled out these strict guidelines from the very beginning, you’d have a point. Thing is, Ohio and Michigan rolled out the same regulations at the same time in March, and yet the impact of the virus is more severe here.
 

And you don’t think there’s something seriously sociopathic about preferring everyone be dead over a *temporary* suspension of some of your liberties? When everything resumes back to normal, you know who won’t be mulching and planting and going on with life? People who’ve died so that others could get a bucket of paint or a bag of mulch at Meijer. I fail to see how your scale of morality tips towards the *permanency* of death over the *temporary* suspension of the *non-essential*.

I can only assume you live in a rural area where you’re not at high risk and can’t possibly appreciate or fathom the ramifications that a small trip outside your home has on the survivability of you or those around you. I don’t think you understand what it’s like to hear sirens whirring by a dozen times a day when before it’d been just once or twice.

And I don’t think you appreciate the exhaustion and the REAL SACRIFICE (not being able to paint and mulch for a month or two are not REAL SACRIFICES) that our hospital staff are going through during this extremely stressful period, and why they’re pleading for people to just stay the f*ck home. 

4 hours ago, nwohweather said:

I think the big issue with Michigan is how draconian the governors laws have been. I understand it's a serious issue in the state, but there is no argument with the fact that Lansing has gotten extreme with its tactics. 

They've made it illegal to buy non-essential goods at the store? It's illegal to travel between two residences you own? Golf is not allowed? Who the bleep is the government to tell me what I can and can't buy at Lowes lol. 

 

You understand it’s serious, but you’d still rather be able to have more avenues to spread this extremely contagious disease?

A golf game and other non-essentials are more important to you than the pain and suffering this disease has caused and will continue to cause? 

19 hours ago, weatherbo said:

18z NAM (and other models) continues to pick up on a lake enhanced band of snow as the storm departs. This run NAM goes nuts with 3.5' of snow. Will be interesting to see hi-res models this evening.

 

 

Wow, good luck up there!

Just now, HighTechEE said:

Has the first PDS this year been issued for the gulf coast states?

I was wondering about that too. Could this also be the year’s first high risk if one’s issued?