TimB

1 minute ago, schoeppeya said:

I think you have a serious disconnect between what you think goes on at school and at home vs what really happens at school and at home. And we are probably at the point where we will just have to agree to disagree on this. 

I know what goes on at school and at home, kids find new and creative ways to cheat on a daily basis. It’s not going to change, regardless of setting.

Just now, schoeppeya said:

You're missing the point. Cheating=not learning. I think "kids education is suffering from at home learning" is pretty high on that list. 

Failing also = not learning, and that’s what those kids would be doing if they didn’t have the opportunity to cheat (which they would, even in a school setting).

Just now, Hoosier said:

I think in-person school should be available if at all possible.  I feel like some areas have been dragging their feet too much with reopening for in-person learning.  Perhaps you cut out the sports/extracurricular activities for now.

CDC came out and said they believe the B.1.1.7 UK variant is now the dominant one in the US.  It appears to be more contagious in general, so kids may also be able to spread that one more.  Thankfully we are coming closer to the end of the school year, but we're still talking about a couple more months in many cases.

I would argue, and I think many educators would agree, that nothing substantial occurs between mid-April and the end of the school year.

2 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

If you're relying on integrity to get a 15-18 year old to do school work vs literally almost anything else in the world.... you're in trouble. 

I would argue that “people are going to cheat in school when learning remotely” is below at least 1,000 other issues to be worried about during the pandemic, maybe even 10,000.

Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

Of course. Most people take the easy way out if given the opportunity. That's especially true in college, where you're paying to get a degree. Can you imagine not cheating and failing and still paying $40k for a Bachelors degree. 

I would argue that if someone cheats to get a bachelor’s degree, it will ultimately either catch up to them when they fail professionally where cheating isn’t an option, and they’ll get what they deserved, or it won’t catch up to them and they’ll be successful in the adult world so their cheating in college would become irrelevant. But ultimately we’re talking about high school, where people have cheated since the beginning of time and there’s never been much if any student integrity, so little would change.

16 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I've done both and I 100% agree. It's hard to argue this point actually, google is one click away and no teacher watching you take your test. 

So every single person on this earth would throw integrity to the wayside in that situation?

20 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Listen I am not arguing that there aren't kids who benefit from online classes, but its a whole lot easier to get a higher grade while putting in less work from remote learning and that's a fact. I even agree with you that standardized testing is malarkey (and that's coming from an above average standardized test taker), but there still has to be some kind of merit based system where not everyone gets an A because everyone knows how to use google. 

Grade inflation has been going on since the Vietnam days when professors didn’t want to flunk students because they wanted to make sure they stayed in school so they didn’t get sent to Vietnam. (And probably before that)

20 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

As someone who is young enough to have taken online classes-it's because online classes and virtual learning is easier, and easier to cheat (you can google answers, even for math problems). 

But haven’t students been cheating since the dawn of time?

6 minutes ago, UMB WX said:

On the flip side there appears to be a population of all aged student personalities  excelling with virtual learning. I have to believe I would have benefited from online learning  for many reasons when I was in school during the 80's/early 90's.  The social part of school can be very damaging.  It just goes to show that education needs to expand its instructional methods so that all students can benefit from the learning style that best suits them.

Agreed. Even if this population probably skews white/upper middle class, if that’s how a student learns best, that option should be available through the public school system and kids shouldn’t be forced to go to a charter school or something for it.

Another day, another 80 degree reading. First time it’s happened on back to back days this early in the season since 3/22-23/2012.

2 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

 

This is such a good conversation to be having. There are so many consequences to having kids staying home from school that almost exclusively effect people without enough money to pay for arrangements for their kids. 

That’s exactly it. The kids who are suffering from this are not kids like I was, or kids like my hypothetical, not-yet-existent kids will be. Those kids will be fine regardless of how school is conducted. But there are a lot more places where kids will fall through the cracks as a result of this pandemic, and a lot more kids will fall through the cracks than otherwise would have.

2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Yeah that exactly right. It increases the disparities that already exist. It's also another reason why lockdowns are only quasi-effective in the short term. The government didnt/doesn't help the front line workers enough in impoverished areas all that much and they can't work from home. So you end up shifting the infection burden on an already relatively unhealthy cohort in multigenerational households while middle and upper class mostly white people can work from home and order Uber eats. Then, everyone focuses (including the government to shift blame on to the individual) on maybe the 20% of spread that is actually caused by "bad behavior" all the while ignoring the systemic issues behind the majority of the spread. 

Guilty as charged, unfortunately I’m a middle class white person working from home and ordering Uber eats. Hence the reason I had to remind myself why it won’t really work out to have kids of any age going to school virtually for any real length of time.

8 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

The pros outweigh the cons, at least from now until the end of the school year, when fewer people are vaccinated and as stated above, all that’s going on in high schools is state-mandated bull***t like standardized tests. I have a totally different opinion for the fall when the covid risk is (hopefully) much lower and there’s actual curriculum to be learned and not just end-of-year nonsense.

Though, admittedly, this is very dependent on location and socioeconomic status and things like that. Leaving a 15 year old at home to go to school while the parents go to work is a completely different ballgame in an low crime, upper middle class suburban neighborhood where everyone has internet access vs. a high-crime, poorer urban area where not everyone has internet access.

22 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

What is your justification for high school kids staying home?

The pros outweigh the cons, at least from now until the end of the school year, when fewer people are vaccinated and as stated above, all that’s going on in high schools is state-mandated bull***t like standardized tests. I have a totally different opinion for the fall when the covid risk is (hopefully) much lower and there’s actual curriculum to be learned and not just end-of-year nonsense.

10 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Pretty sure I've seen evidence that teachers are far more likely to get covid outside of schools than in the school...just like kids are catching more covid outside of school than in school. School doesn't have to be perfectly safe to be in favor of mostly open school given the obvious negative effects of long term school closures. 

It would not surprise me at all if that evidence is true, my comment was more devil’s advocate. However, I still think that calculation is a little different for elementary/middle vs. high school. If high schools are still conducted virtually until it is safer (i.e. through the end of the school year, I’m hoping most of the population will be vaccinated before school starts up again), it doesn’t prevent the parents from working outside of the home if their job requires them to do so because a 14 1/2 to 18 year old can be left at home to learn virtually. Maybe even 7th-8th graders, isn’t 12 the age when kids are allowed to be left at home by themselves? This time of the school year, most of the instruction being done in middle and high schools is preparing students for, and taking, standardized tests and state-mandated bull***t anyway. 

11 minutes ago, paweather said:

Sorry to depress people, just the nature of my passion in snow no matter the time of year. We will start hearing rumbles from people when it is in the 90's and 100% humidity soon. Our forum has been great over the years let's keep it that way no matter what weather you like. 

Remember, hail apparently counts as snow, as detailed on here a few weeks back. There’s a shot at snow in every month!

On the flip side of that coin, a quick Google search turns up the fact that as of January there were 530 US teachers who died as a result of covid (that we know of, so the number is likely higher). And the fact is, given that teachers are usually able to retire before the age of 60, very few of them are in the vulnerable age group. So there’s a delicate balance between death and how much we’re willing to let students “fall behind” their peers in other states and countries that are mostly doing the same thing.

9 minutes ago, Stebo said:

A lot of it is because of the schools and in person learning. I would end the year now otherwise it is going to keep going like wildfire.

But standardized tests and all that nonsense... how could we possibly cancel those?! /s

1 hour ago, Ahoff said:

Also a rare warm home opener for the Pirates tomorrow.

Ah yes, that’s a plus. Back before the pandemic and before I decided not another dime of my hard earned money was going into Bob Nutting’s pockets, I tried to go to one game in that opening series (not necessarily the opener itself, so an evening game) every year. I remember going to one in maybe 2016 where the high was in the low 40s and then skipping out on one in 2018 because it was too cold with snow flurries.

(I’m admittedly conflicted because of my well documented position on cold weather.)

1 minute ago, schoeppeya said:

Were there ever any explanations for why places where cases numbers exploded the fatality rate exploded as well (Italy/NYC last spring)? Was it just the overall decrease in effective health care?

I honestly can’t remember. I think it’s probably a combination of that and the virus was still very new so we couldn’t treat it as effectively as we can now. Also testing (at least here, not sure about Italy) was abysmal, so the denominator of that fraction was probably much higher than on paper.

2 hours ago, Bubbler86 said:

Just looked at Wunderground.  Rou'ville is up to 79 now and the majority of the West Shore and back is in the mid to upper 70's but you Easterners holding in the upper 60's and low 70's.   Our Pittsburgh friend was right as they are over 80.

 

 

Indeed, we’re officially at 81 at PIT, which hasn’t been reached here since September 12th.

81. We made it. First time since September.

4 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Young people need to get the vaccine asap.

What was I saying the other day about this turning into something like SARS?

Edit: not saying it will. But things like this at least raise the possibility that it could.

3 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Idk where his post went but those who live with the positive person would be staying home too.

They’d be uninvited if I were vaccinated and hosting the gathering.

1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

I'm talking about the other people (who aren't showing symptoms) who live with the sick person.  They still want to attend.  Do you risk it in that case?  Personally, I don't.

I also don’t. Fortunately I don’t associate with those parts of my extended family often if ever.