eduggs

Nothing looks very encouraging to me from a winter weather perspective out at least a week, apart from a few chances for flurries. The Jan 21-23 period still holds some hope, but that seems to gradually be delayed and or deamplified (weak upper level support) as we get closer. Obviously things in model world can change quickly, so we track...

It's been about 4 consecutive weeks without a decent winter threat, but there is at least another 4 weeks of potential prime winter left. 

32 minutes ago, DotRat_Wx said:

Lol, idiots. If they refuse, they get what they deserve

Yeah, it just really sucks for all the people who can't get the vaccine due to allergies etc and the ~10% who won't develop immunity from the vaccine. That's why we need high resistance and low case loads in the community.

2 hours ago, wdrag said:

I think our long rangers are going to be relatively happy... flurries into NYC Sat night or Sunday Morning,  maybe a period of wet light melting snow Monday in NYC, and then potential for several events late 21st through the end of the month. I'm thinking a model topic for 1/21-22.  Even if mostly wet NYC,  I think a significant wintry event for part of our area, between I80 and I90 (Ohio eastward), is coming in that two day time frame per GFS 15 and 16, GGEM, NAEFS and EPS ensemble. 

The 21st still looks like a pretty weak signal to me. It's also 8.5 days out. We've had several of these head fakes over the past few weeks, and most threats have faded with time.

The wave train continues, with a new system moving through every 2 - 3 days, which might actually be too active with non ideal spacing. The activity looks good and the forecasted trof axis looks promising. Hopefully one of these systems will sharpen up soon enough to impact us... not way out in the Canadian Maritimes.  But which one?

The CMC continues to be really wet for Saturday. It's probably overdone, but it seems like we're due for one of these southerly flow soakers. If the CMC is right, that would be some heavy wet snow in the VT mountains and possibly the Adirondacks.  Probably also the higher elevations of the Catskills, Berkshires, and Taconics.

5 hours ago, Brian5671 said:

No cold air though

It's really not even close. And not just the surface either. The lowest 100mb is torched.

It's unfortunate because 500mb looks interesting. I think we would need something pretty extreme to get a wintry outcome around here. Different story in the highest elevations of the Poconos, Catskills, and then up into NE.

The CMC almost pulled off an event on the 16th. It's pretty close to something, and shows what could happen with a higher amplitude trof and a s/w rounding the bend in the deep south. The GFS and Euro don't look hopeless for this period, but still pretty far off. Can't write it off 5+ days off.

As others have noted, the following wave (with timing differences between apprx. the 19th and 21st) looks threatening on most 12z guidance today. But there's very little confidence 10 days out obviously. Can't rule out a warm solution or a non-event.

1 hour ago, snowman19 said:

I think the real wild card will be March. Niña March’s can go either way, some turn cold, some stay warm. February tends to be the torch month in a Niña due to the tropical forcing. Plus you have the very short wavelengths in March, which lead to some crazy outcomes at times

Almost everything with weather is a wildcard. There is huge uncertainty everywhere. There are no extremely strong correlations between indices and local weather. We can't lock in anything except a high likelihood for AN temps at all timescales beyond 1 week.

2 hours ago, EastonSN+ said:

Not trying to correlate. Wanted to know. Do u have the answer?

I don't. But I think the data Don S (and possibly others) posted previously would answer your question. 50% of average or less probably happens something like 20-33% of the time. And seasons with 10" storms are also somewhat uncommon. So we're dealing with a relatively small sample of years. Since 10" is not far below 50% of average, the situation you're describing is basically getting one significant storm in December and then nothing of significance the rest of the season. I'm sure that doesn't happen very often, but there's no reason why it couldn't.

35 minutes ago, EastonSN+ said:

I wonder when the last time NYC received 10 inches of snow by end of December and ended up with less than 50% of average snowfall for the year? Thinking 89/90?

The December 17 event was just one fluke storm. It could have easily ended up as a relatively pedestrian 5" event like places nearby in north-central NJ. Fixating on the supposed correlation between 10" storms and seasonal snowfall in NYC is silly and not statistically sound.

3 hours ago, wdrag said:

Good Sunday morning everyone, Dec 10.

 

No significant widespread hazardous wintry weather events are showing up in the preponderance of modeling for the next two weeks, nor any sustained below normal cold. Eventually something has to change.  I will probably will wait 2 or 3 successive consistent op and ensemble cycles before any potential topic. Just too much suppression.

I see no reason we can't stay warm and relatively snowless. If there is a change, I'm concerned it could be back to a "cutter" type pattern with the main trough axis too far west. I see some indications of this toward the end of some recent model runs. I don't trust any climate index based "pattern" talk out past 10 days. I hope for a good change, but I want to see it in range of the mid-range models first.

It's easier to be confident about time periods out beyond the scope of the operational midrange models. Confidence tends to evaporate as we get within range and things don't look as we hoped . Let's get a little closer and see how things look before we get too excited.

I did like how things looked on the 0z guidance I've seen so far out beyond day 7.

6 hours ago, bluewave said:

The EPS weeklies. They show a window for snow from around the 16-18th through late January. But it looks like the pattern becomes less favorable again by the beginning of February.

For the few years that I've been casually looking at them, I consider the weeklies to have a poor track record of identifying actual snow threats. But I think people like looking deep into the future when things in the shorter term aren't going very well.

The CMC shows a major hit for the 13th. Doesn't mean a ton, but it's nice to see a wintry solution. Fairly strong low and long duration. Nice phase on that run.

3 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

The op Euro has been garbage so far this winter, not only too amped, but has been flip flopping like crazy

It seems like there have been more shortwave troughs and ridges than usual over North America so far this winter. I'm not sure if that's real or just my impression. But if true, presumably the models would have a tendency to "flip flip" based on the sensitivity of the interactions between different features. I like the term - unstable pattern - that Walt used.

1 minute ago, MJO812 said:

Ukie is flat for next week. Euro is alone. 

Good chance Euro joins the consensus or at least moves towards it tonight. Doesn't mean the threat is dead though.

For a while now the upcoming period has looked promising based on forecast indices and anomaly averaging.  In fact if you averaged the 500mb heights over the next several days this "pattern" would look fantastic. Yet here we are with most guidance showing no substantial precipitation within 100 miles for at least the next 7 - 10 days.  That's why I hate long range forecasting.  Sure it might sometimes work out for energy traders, but weather is a local phenomenon.  I know that major snow events are statistically more likely during "favorable patterns."  But I've seen so many storms materialize out of lousy patterns... And too-many-to-count good looking patterns fail to deliver. The correlation between forecasted future indices and snow in our backyards is just not strong enough for me to get excited about predictions weeks into the future. 

All that said, we're still within a moderate-sized modeling error of 1 or 2 significant coastal storms over the next 5 days.  So it still bears watching. Modeling has actually become so good that I don't have much confidence in a northward shift of the low tracks.  If this were 2001, or even 2010, I would still hold onto more hope for this period.

14 minutes ago, Franklin0529 said:

Every model is something different.  Never seen such inconsistency in my life lol 

I've been following weather models for 25 years. And I've never seen such consistency 5 days out as I've seen this winter. Modeling gets better every year.  

There are so many mid-range models now and they run so frequently that we have data overload.  We are getting spoiled.

Finally snowing in Mountain Lakes NJ.  Based on Sat and Radar it looks like the mid-level lows are swinging through the area. 

Cat paws is all we've been able to manage here in Mountain Lakes. Just a little too far south and too low.  The liquid-frozen line has been fairly well modeled IMO.

BGM to ALB looking snowy again 

The heaviest snow axis is well NW of the cities again with this one, despite the coastal surface low tracking well offshore. That's partly the result of the track and location of the ULL.

The frozen precip. line is currently somewhere north of I-80 along I-287.  I'm not sure how far north, but probably a ways.  A few pingers mixed in with the rain.

1 minute ago, Brian5671 said:

light rain and 34 degrees

same here

1 minute ago, snowman19 said:

My area is staying above freezing at the surface tonight. But you’re right, you are going to have to dynamically cool the column with strong UVV’s/lift and heavy precip rates to turn it back over to all snow. The models aren’t very impressive with QPF for the duration right now though

The NAM gets up to around 2C at 900mb for NENJ through Westchester until finally cooling just before the precip. tapers off late tonight.  If that's right it's going to be hard to snow. But the NAM soundings for the next several hours look more like rain or freezing rain than sleet.  And we're had several bursts of sleet come through... so who knows. Right now I'm leaning against much snow south of Sussex, northern Passaic, NW Rockland, and Putnam Counties.  

14 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

Sleet here now....obviously a mid-level warm nose has worked in

Pretty well modeled. The question is whether it mixes out/cools before the precip. shuts off later tonight. The fact that it's sleet instead of freezing rain tells us that there's also a pronounced cold layer in there pretty low down. That gives some hope that heavier lift could help cool the column.

There were no problems accumulating on all surfaces here at 500ft with round 1. Surface temperatures have been pretty steady today.  Maybe inching up slightly.