LVwxHistorian

3 hours ago, Birds~69 said:

What the hell is going on? In one corner we have LVwxHistorian going apeshit about 100yr old snowfall totals, trying to find newspaper clippings from the 1920s and anything in between even though facts have been given. In the opposing corner we have wxman obsessed w/merging subforums and on the verge of calling the state police even though everyone knows for the most part people only care about their area.

Must be the holidays...  

35F

If one more person says something about "facts", I really am gonna go apeshit!!   All the facts are on my side!!

5 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

LV you just keep on back pedaling - now it's only the big storms but he is a good reporter for small storms.....LOL!! All 70 times Coatesville reported less than West Chester are detailed below,,,,and this is only over a short 15 year period - that you said was for every snowfall.....weak!!!!

#	Year	Month	NWS WC COOP
1	1895	April	20.9
2	1909	December	13.5
3	1895	February	13.3
4	1895	April	8.8
5	1895	February	7.5
6	1898	November	6
7	1903	February	6
8	1904	December	6
9	1899	February	5.5
10	1904	November	5.5
11	1899	January	5
12	1904	February	4.5
13	1904	December	4.5
14	1896	March	4.3
15	1894	April	4.1
16	1895	April	4.1
17	1903	December	4
18	1908	January	4
19	1908	December	4
20	1894	February	3.5
21	1904	March	3.5
22	1905	December	3.5
23	1899	January	3.3
24	1896	March	3
25	1896	December	3
26	1898	November	3
27	1907	February	3
28	1908	January	3
29	1894	February	2.8
30	1895	January	2.8
31	1907	January	2.8
32	1895	January	2.5
33	1902	January	2.5
34	1897	January	2.3
35	1901	November	2.3
36	1907	December	2.3
37	1898	November	2
38	1900	January	2
39	1901	January	2
40	1903	January	2
41	1907	November	2
42	1909	January	2
43	1896	February	1.8
44	1902	February	1.8
45	1906	January	1.8
46	1907	January	1.8
47	1895	April	1.6
48	1909	February	1.5
49	1909	March	1.5
50	1901	December	1.3
51	1902	January	1.3
52	1904	December	1
53	1907	February	1
54	1904	February	0.8
55	1907	January	0.8
56	1907	January	0.8
57	1907	January	0.8
58	1908	December	0.8
59	1909	January	0.8
60	1909	December	0.8
61	1904	February	0.5
62	1907	December	0.5
63	1904	December	0.3
64	1904	December	0.3
65	1909	January	0.3
66	1909	January	0.3
67	1895	April	0.2
68	1908	December	0.2
69	1909	March	0.2
70	1909	March	0.1

What the F?!   The first 6 are completely wrong: there was 0 snow in April 1895 as Coatesville correctly records -- West Chester was rewriting the precip in the snowfall column!

  Dec 1909 is the one we're already talking about: Coatesville 39.3" vs WC,  22.5"

and Feb 1895 Gordon had 28.2" and WC 15.75"!!

Man amateurs!   What, you just have these tabulated without ever looking at the originals?!!  Just go here

IPS - Record of Climatological Observations - Select State | IPS | National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) (noaa.gov)

Yes, WC had 2.6" more in Nov 1898 -- whoa, call the snow police.

Man, you are an amateur -- At best!  

1 hour ago, ChescoWx said:

Now you say "not that it really matters" after saying Coatesville totals were inflated every time and now proven wrong not once.....but 70 times in the period you assured us was each and every time. You should stick to your LV history - your story and goalposts seem to keep changing LOL!!  Do you have any good history to share with us about the LV or just call folks names??

So give me the dates so I check them!  I'm saying that the guy only cared to inflate them on the big storms -- the ones people would remember and talk about to this day, like we are, and say "man that Coatesville, they were the big winners again"!! 

For this Gordon, big snow totals = big weiner I guess, LOL  

And what was 1895 about, just a red herring?? 

And Iv'e already posted good LV stuff and will continue.

What a strange way to get attention:   be a weather observer and inflate your totals!!!   

I guess it's better than cooking the books of a business or being a drunk school bus driver, but come on!!

Which 70 days?   Not that it really matters, the guy only wanted to be a ham and have the biggest total in the big storms!

He was starved for attention I guess, LOL!!

And what's this 1895 you mentioned?

And what does this mean:??

"Also maybe we should look at why Coatesville's observer Mr Gordon only reported 51.4" of snow in 1895 while West Chester reported a whopping 79.4" "

One thing I can say for sure:   If I ever write a book, it won't include this garbage data!!

4 hours ago, MacChump said:

oh man you guys are the ones that us weather nerds shoved in lockers

LOL I'd really like to see you see you try that

3 minutes ago, LVwxHistorian said:

Since you keep missing the point, I'm gonna spell this out like I was talking to a 4-year or old (or Sean Hannity).    From 1894 to 1909, this guy, at one station, reported far and away the highest total EVERY SINGLE TIME.  Show me a station since then where that has happened.  You can't because there is none!!   Yes every storm has a highest value -- but it's NOT ALWAYS AT THE SAME PLACE!!!

MAN, WHAT'S SO HARD ABOUT THIS?

3 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

To really illustrate the incredible variability in snow totals over very short distances. .I went back and captured just a few of some recent events and the approximate distance between reporting sites - using only final storm event NWS PNS reports from official observing sites and or trained spotters - some examples are 1 foot differences over just 6 short miles

• Jan 24, 2016 - Malvern PA 30.1" vs. Kennett Square 15.3" (16 miles) (+14.8")
• Feb 10, 2010  - East Nantmeal 26.8" vs. East Bradford 14.5" (6 miles)(+12.3")
• Feb 6, 2010 - Chester Springs 24.1" vs. East Nantmeal 18.3" (4.5 miles) (+5.8") vs. ABE Airport (7.7") = 16.4"
• December 30, 2000 - PHL 9" vs Glenmoore PA 1" - (28 miles)

 

Since you keep missing the point, I'm gonna spell this out like I was talking to a 4-year or old (or Sean Hannity).    From 1894 to 1909, this guy, at one station, reported far and away the highest total EVERY SINGLE TIME.  Show me a station since then where that has happened.  You can't because there is none!!   Yes every storm has a highest value -- but it's NOT ALWAYS AT THE SAME PLACE!!!

On 12/4/2021 at 1:52 PM, ChescoWx said:

Also maybe we should look at why Coatesville's observer Mr Gordon only reported 51.4" of snow in 1895 while West Chester reported a whopping 79.4" - LOL!! The variations are just too great to try and question long standing historical observations!

1895?  The year? 

Also I'll admit that this guy's observations may make more sense if he was at a significantly higher elevation, maybe 700 to 900 feet outside of the town but even then it's hard to believe 

2 hours ago, MGorse said:

He is very passionate about snow totals!

LOL, I'm just kidding around!   but I think I have strong case to NCEI and I've already made the case here

44 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

Nah, probably just not interested in arguing with an obvious pompous individual who has no ability for enjoyable, tactful discussion with others on a weather forum. Now, go back to your history books...and maybe you could find some joy in those?

So I did the next best thing and got on Newspapers.com but Coatesville is such a little hick nothing town that they don't even have their own old paper and are rarely mentioned in other papers except when they report their newest instance of remarkable incest and/or bestiality/necrophilia!!!  LOL

1 minute ago, TugHillMatt said:

Clearly you do... "rolls eyes"....

And I'm from Allentown.  you guys are too dumb to see what's right in front of you that's why Chesco can't directly refute even 1 event!!

Just now, TugHillMatt said:

Um, wow. Don't be a prick Philadelphian. I am allowed to comment and share my experiences. It wasn't a personal attack or anything on you. Take a Xanax, pal.

Your talking 40 miles, I'm talking 10.  Your talking 10" I'm talking 20"!!!  Apples and oranges man!!  Just go out and enjoy and the lake effect and don't trouble your pretty head with something you don't understand!!

2 hours ago, TugHillMatt said:

Interesting conversation! As somebody who spent the first 20 years of my life visiting my grandparents in Brandywine, right off of 82 (just north of 30 Bypass), I can provide experience as well. From Gap over to the area north of Coatesville, there was almost always more snow than anywhere else in the area. I think there's some orographic lift that occurs there from different wind directions during events.

If you haven't looked at the data, you really shouldn't comment at all!!  Cause then your'e just talking out of your youKnowWHat!

40 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

Good stuff!! really enjoying the research - I have also forwarded all the corroborating data to NCEI - plus still finding even more examples-  plenty of food for thought for them!!

For sure!  I have nothing personal against these records -- I'm not trying to take the record away and give it to another location that I have a special affinity for!   I just like to know the truth.

If we had just accepted numbers without investigating then the 24-hour snowfall record would now be the 77 inches at Montague, NY in January 1997, which is why I asked how often you measure snowfall.

18 hours ago, LVwxHistorian said:

So what you're saying is that you're the reincarnation or relative of this Gordon?! LOL

I understand that farther inland and higher elevation typically get bigger totals, but I'm talking about a specific time period and specific storms where the disparity is monumental, much more than the data you are citing.

And you haven't yet addressed any of these 4 specific amounts yet.

19 hours ago, ChescoWx said:

Now LV to put a fine point on this great discussion

Recent Annual Actual snow reports by NWS Trained observers - East Nantmeal Twp PA (EN) vs West Chester PA (WC) (only 9.1 miles apart) to highlight some years with great variability over less than 10 miles

2017 - EN 34.9" / WC 15.8"

2013 - EN 32.6" / WC  18.8"

2012 - EN 21.3" / WC 11.2"

2010 - EN 72.4" / WC - 53.0"

2007 - EN 29.6" / WC - 13.6"

 

 

These are 20" differences over a season, I'm talking 20" differences for a storm!!  

And that map doesn't show the line going through Coatesville since Coatesville isn't labeled on it.

Well since neither Chesco nor anyone else has been able to address any of these besides vague statements of banding and elevation, I think I have a really good argument to NCEI.  

And just so you don't think I'm a hack, I'm a master's student in ATMO at U of Arizona.

1 minute ago, ChescoWx said:

LV you of course do not need a newspaper to corroborate reported weather data....since all a local Coatesville paper would have reported would have been what Mr Gordon would have reported to the US Department of Agriculture - Weather Bureau which was the NWS back then....the record is real, validated by high totals in surrounding locations relatively close to the station so time to let this one go my man!! Snowfall measurements are and will continue to be the most variable of weather measurements. We cannot 125 years after the fact try to cancel out what the weather service viewed as valid enough to publish and make part of our climate records because you think the 29" should have been 20.2"

Well first of all, the 29.2" in April 1894 should probably be closer to 10" -- thats all that's supported by KS and WC.  Perhaps he heard about those higher depths and fudged his numbers.  

I don't believe that there was much if any quality control back then as compared to today -- they just accepted the numbers. 

And newspapers frequently give their own totals, I know from experience having looked at alot of newspapers.

You've been quiet on Dec 1909 and Jan 1905, how about those?  

Just now, MGorse said:

You guys are really digging deep into this!

We gotta figure it out, LOL!!

I can't find Coatesville papers online.  If you find corroboration for any one of these 4 storms in the local paper, I'll send you $50!!

2 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

HI LV attached is the American Meteorological Society snowfall map for April 1894 published in May 1894. You can clearly see the 33" line of snow entering Chester County PA - clear weather service evidence to support the Coatesville snowfall for April 1894. This is fun!!

That's circular logic, that's just based on their 29 inch total, LOL!!

Yes I already mentioned these totals in south central PA,

I'm talking about a newspaper, from Coatesville (or somewhere else), that says Coatesville got these amounts. 

BTW what a dumb name for a town, LOL

I'm not a trained spotter but I know the rules.

So how about those newspapers?  I'm sure they would mention 2 feet of snow in April!

5 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

It clearly highlights the incredible variability within only 9 miles in Chester County. As you move from SE to NW across this county you see wide swings in snowfall totals = with much more (actually equal to Chicago IL on an annual snow basis in Western Chesco) compared to Eastern Chesco. This is part of the reason the NWS a few years back split the zone East and West. Those Coatesville historical obs are clearly accurate and within the realm of variability based on the unique climatology of Chester County

What's so unique about it, it's just a little higher?!  That's true everywhere else and nowhere is there this disparity.  Show me another place. 

There's no lake effect, no mountains, no nothing.  It's just incompetent observations which have been dismissed before.

Show me a newspaper that backs up any of it and I'll stand corrected.

BTW how often do you measure snowfall when it snows?