catoctin wx

Someone on a sports forum I frequent said "a signal was sent moments before the earthquake..."

Awesome. I love it.

That's awful. These people are nuts. I watched a few of their videos after the Joplin tornado and I wanted to kill myself

"In coming message from the Big Gaint Head".

The HAARP conspiracy theories have begun.

I was waiting for those

LOL

culpeper co. schools closed tomorrow.

Fauquier is closed through October

@dylanmatt: "In retrospect, I resorted to cannibalism rather fast after the earthquake."

Here at work in Frederick, some pictures are now hanging crooked on the walls. At home, wife grabbed up the two-year old and ran outside, as did all the neighbors. She said she thought the ceiling was going to fall in.

No cell communication for about 20 minutes, though we were texting each other successfully.

Hope my pictures at home are all on straight

That was exciting. Initially concerned about North Anna nuke plant, but I would have heard any news by now about that

That and Biomedical Engineering. Would have assumed that was a big up-and-coming thing. Poor Studio Art.

For the average salary, I wonder if Meteorology should be included under Physical Sciences. ~$69,000 is certainly not bad....

It probably should be included in that. I'm a meteologist/atmospheric scientist by degree, but my working title is Physical Scientist. As for the $69,000, that sounds about right for the combination of higher paid govt jobs and lower paid private forcasting (e.g., accuwx) jobs.

Not to mention Mathematics and Computer Science? Something sounds screwy about that! Maybe Mathematics majors are doing ok (ones I know from my experience are) and Computer Science majors are ok (dido), but people with the combined degree are not getting a job specific to that major? IDK...

I was surprised by that one as well. perhaps they are lumping computer graphics folks (who have a tough job market right now) in with the comp sci graduates>?

can anybody figure out why Ed is still posting about petroleum engineers in this thread?

Saw an interesting "Infographic" posted this morning.... Note: Meteorologists/Atmospheric Scientists are listed as having a near-100% employment rate and is the 10th most employed field.

Very cool graphic. I'm honostly pretty surprised that atmospheric science jobs are that highly employed. Although thinking back on it, just about everyone in my graduating class in 2006 got a job or went to grad school (and later got a job) in the field.

Also surprised that nuclear engineering is ranked high amongst unemployed, there is a big market for them right now

I have talked with Springfield NWS numerous times and did some walking through the damage path with them. The impression I got from them is that this is a solid EF-5. The winds probably varied a bit with in the tornado. I have walked every stretch of this damage path and I would say that parts of the it were strong EF-4 to low EF-5. Then there are segments of strong EF-5 that probably had winds at 250mph. If you walk every inch of the path you can see the parts that were just a hair stronger. So I believe that 70% of the path was probably 200-210mph winds. But there are segments of probably 225-250mph winds. Also remember this when you talk about St. Johns. This is a huge building that actually got shifted off of its foundation a bit. And St. Johns was on the edge of the tornado and didn't take the strongest winds. Also when it hit Rangeline (Home Depot, Walmart, Acadamy Sports) it was a hair weaker. Probably winds around 200 mph. If you walk that path numerous times you can see the wind varying in spots. I think that is why there is some confusion on this. The bottom line is this is the most deadliest tornado in modern history. You have to go back to the Tri-State tornado for more deaths. That tornado spanded over 200 miles on the ground. The Joplin tornado did all of this in a 6 mile stretch. Also the Tri-State tornado was prior to tornado warnings.

interesting discussion, especially for those of us who have never witnessed this kind of damage. In understand if you don't want to answer, but do you think the NWS will be putting those higher estimates into a survey report? Or do you think they will likely just be sticking with 200+ mph?

Ok, gotcha. This limitation is for all tornado ratings, but they show more often the stronger the tornado.

I would think so. The number of buildings that can withstand 210 mph winds is likely pretty small, so the likelyhood of them actually getting hit is tiny. So even if the winds were that high, there is no way of being able to prove it

But there are structures that can withstand winds >210 ... though they are not that common (think reinforced concrete structures). Not sure if the gap between those type of structures and well built structures that can't withstand winds >210 mph is large, or if there's no calibration for the kind of winds that could destroy the "super-structures". IOW, what would be the kind of damage for 220mph? for 250mph?

I don't think he was saying that there are no structures that can withstand those wind speeds. He's saying that if there are none in the path of the tornado, then they have no basis to say that the extreme wind speeds were present.

Yeah, we were talking about this above. The highest official estimate right now is the "greater than 200 mph"-- however, reputable sources were suggesting instantaneous winds up to 225-250 mph. But it's unclear 1) whether that will be at some point considered official and 2) whether instantaneous winds would count, as a tornado is rated as per the max estimated 3-sec gust.

ok, thanks Josh. I didn't read back through much of the thread, but I thought it might be something like this. It would be nice to get clarification from the NWS on this topic since the numbers are being thrown around in the media. Part of my job is to determine the worse case meteorological conditions possible at given sites around the country. Having wind speeds approaching 250 mph would be a special case for sure.

I have been reading some articles that make statements about the wind speeds approaching 250 mph in this tornado. for example:

On May 22, 2011, an EF-5 category tornado with winds between 225 and 250 mph slammed Joplin, Mo., a town of about 50,000, causing more than 140 deaths and an estimated $3 billion in damage.

I'm sure it's been covered in this thread and others, but does anybody have a link to a NWS survey that gives wind speeds this high? I've seen the Greg Forbes post about it, but I didn't see a link to an official survey. All I can find is winds in excess of 200 mph on the NWS site.

thanks

That was a very interesting detail that i'd never thought about, but makes absolute perfect sense. Incredible.

JoMo, thank you so much for taking the time to recount that for us. I'm glad to hear that you and your family are ok. If you don't mind, i'd like to copy and paste that to email out to people that I know. I think if someone has not made a decision yet to donate in some way to the people of Joplin, maybe they should take a few minutes and put themselves in your story. Its incredible just thinking about it.

seconded. Im sure many of my meteorology friends who are not on the board would be interested in reading the description....with JoMo's permission of course

Glad that you are ok JoMo. The whole board was worried about you. Excellent write up of your experiences this week and how it has been on the ground. Sorry that this had to happen to such good people in Joplin

I wouldn't draw any conclusions for a while. It could very well be days before he will even have internet access again, and even if he has internet access, he may a number of other things to be taking care of before he checks in here.

yeah, I was just hoping for some good news. I'm sure he has plenty of other things to be doing right now

I hate to ask, but any word on JoMo yet?

Hey guys, maybe you can answer a question for me about tornadoes. You probably have seen/heard the Utube video/audio with the group of people huddled in a store as the tornado passes overhead. The tornado hits, the glass blows out and then there is a definate lull. One of the guys says over and over We are good, meaning the storm has passed. Then it hits again even with more fury. Do you think that there was an area of relative calm in the middle? Almost like an eye of a hurricane? It could also just be a multi vorticity tornado with multi centers hitting the store.

The audio is probably the best audio segment that has ever been recorded as a tornado passed overhead, just chilling!

Gene

I'm sure there are people on this board more qualified to speak on the subject than I am, but listening to the recording, my impression is that the first blast was likely the leading edge (gust front, if you will). You can then hear what sounds like hail hitting the building followed by the actual tornado. Even though it was a monster storm, there is no way (IMO) that it was directly over them and it had an eye of any kind. The lull was likely just the time between the gust front and the tornado hitting the building.

The hurricane parallel to this event is something like Charley in 2004. Everyone knows about the potential (or they should), warnings are in effect, but the rapid ramp up into a beast catches people off guard. I really can't think of a worse set of circumstances for Joplin unless it would've hit at night.

I was thinking that a weekday would have been worse. Considering how many schools were completely destroyed, I can't imagine how bad it would have been if they were filled with students

Pretty amazing double rainbow that formed after the storm in Joplin

It's just you.

No such thing as an EF6.

just from watching the video's, it looked (to my untrained eye) comparable to the Tuscaloosa tornado

Not true. I "only" have a BS in Meteorology/Mathematics (toilet paper degree) and make 100K+ as a Met. Congrats on your windfall but your statement is patently false.

seconded. Although I have a masters degree, I would still be making plenty as Met at GS-13 without it.

It all depends on the jobs available and a bit of luck finding them

I'm minoring in Environmental Science, but do you actually think a minor really helps that much in getting employed? It is hardly the same as a double major and I don't think it makes one much more qualified to do something. Maybe just shows interest/drive?

I didn't minor in anything, so I can't really say, but my friends who did it seemed to work out for them. I only said minoring, because double majoring with meteorology as a major would be nearly impossible to get done in 4 years. Minoring in a related science shows a variable skillset that may be of use to some employers. It can also help you get into a grad school depending on what you want to do. A friend of mine majored in Met and minored in Political Science so that he could go to grad school and enventually get a job in the science policy world. without the minor, it probably wouldn't have worked out.

a minor in a related field can only help you get employed, I don't see how it could hurt

Sometimes you make silly points over and over again for no reason (hence why some folks get fed up with your posts)--but I agree with you here. It is such a tough market for all levels of meteorologists from B.S. to Ph.D. I think others have alluded to it here--but the best thing one can do is gain as much unique experience as possible in college to standout from the rest, try and get internships during the summer, volunteer at a NWS office, and double major in a different field for backup.

I would also add that going to grad school (which most get paid to do) and boning up on your programming skills is a great way to go if available. It also allows you to choose a specific direction or area that you can focus on (radar, tropical, severe, etc)