TerryM
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Everything posted by TerryM
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Sorry you can't figure it out. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the topic prior to commenting, I don't see why the rest of us should wait for you to catch up though, so: Barrow seems to be the only station with any chance of getting a whiff of the emissions, but, S&S will be presenting figures directly from the affected area in April - and they are warning us to " be open to the idea that new observations may significantly change what we understand about our world." I find little solace in that statement.
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I believe the video is from before the latest expedition. That expedition came back reporting emissions some orders of magnitude larger than those found earlier - and those new results have caused S&S to join with the Arctic Methane Emergency Group. The fact that they pulled thawed core samples over 50 meters long, at temperatures down to 1.2 degrees may be the most alarming data that she references.
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Traces where the air came from before it was sampled. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ozwv/traj.html
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Perhaps this from 10/01/11 may help
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Thanks for the data - Personally the eye witness accounts of the "boiling sea". The US & Russia spending huge amounts on the emergency expedition, and the reports by Semiletov were enough.
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You don't like my explanation for how all this false information was propagated? What's yours.
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Let's see. Some Russian ship captains got together and told Russian and American authorities the the sea was boiling, just because they thought it would be a funny story to tell. The Russian and American authorities organized an emergency expedition on a nuclear icebreaker taking the worlds leading experts on methane releases, because they could play a huge joke on American Citizens. When they returned the expedition leader warned the world that what they had witnessed was much worse than anything they had ever experienced because he wanted to be sent on another Arctic cruise. The Americans brought some cows to Barrow and had them belch into the flasks being sent in for testing so that Barrow would become a tourist destination. Have I got it right?
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Wow - Thanks!!
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The Navy stuff is certainly suspect, followed it in the winter to get flow patterns as opposed to specific data - but the readings you are getting are even lower than theirs. My point was that most of the ESAS is off the charts & that this could be an indication of clathrates breaking up there as we speak. BTW any idea how they are getting SSS data after freeze up?
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Interesting that both Semiletov & Shakhova are on board. As an aside, when clathrates dissolve a huge amount of fresh water is released along with the methane (tracking fresh water plumes is a method used to locate clathrate deposits at risk), the SSS daily charts show a salinity in the ESAS only matched at the southern end of James Bay, which is at best slightly brackish.
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Yes - but if little green men land on the White House lawn and demand a meeting with our leader I'll also change my position. ;-) If your position wasn't changed by the last 15 - 20 years of warming, why would an additional period warrant a change?
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Vergent Well thought out - and disturbing. A few thoughts: AGW removes enough ice cover to allow storms to mix the thermocline causing a 3C increase in bottom temperature in the Lapev Sea. http://www.polarrese...w/6425/html_150 The Laptev is a shallow water body overlaying a permafrost cap beneath which vast amounts of methane are trapped. The warm water increases the permeability of the cap allowing methane to escape. http://tyeebridge.com/?p=608 Most of the methane remains in the water column causing Ocean Acidification as is noted in the Bering Sea off Barrow. http://www.skeptical...news.php?n=1150 The CH4 being 100 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than CO2 over a short period, causing temperature anomalies of over 10C in many locations in the Arctic. The buoyancy of the gas causes low pressure zones which bring the melt season to an abrupt end at the earliest date ever recorded. Much of the escaping methane, being much lighter than the surrounding air, streams up to the Ozone Layer causing the first ever Arctic Ozone Hole. Much of the remainder is forced high in the atmosphere by severe low pressure systems (think ice hurricane), and above the altitude of the sensing stations - except for a small amount registered at Barrow. Assuming next summer's Arctic ice melt off to be similar to those since 2007 is there any reason to expect this not to continue? Not sure all the dots are connected and welcome constructive comments.
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I wonder what the readings would be if that "ice hurricane" hadn't mixed things up?
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With CH4 bubbling through Arctic waters we would expect, at some point, to experience the dreaded ocean acidification that will ultimately cause the collapse of fish stocks around the world. Most scenarios put this eventuality far into the future, and only potentially a problem if we continue on a BAU path. Recent studies find this is happening now in the Bering Sea - another sign of underwater methane release? http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1150
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Ouch - Much easier to ignore 2 anomalous readings.
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An interesting post at http://theidiottracker.blogspot.com/2011/12/semiletov-v-dmitrenko-tale-of-tape.html promises more from Semiltov and gives an assessment of his work vs Dmitrenko's
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We have a thread addressing climate sensitivity. Please try to stay on topic.
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An interesting paper showing that disruption of the thermohaline in the Laptev Sea in 2007 increased bottom temps by 3 degrees C The observations from the Laptev Sea in 2007 indicate that the bottom water temperatures on the mid-shelf increased by more than 3�C http://www.polarresearch.net/index.php/polar/article/view/6425/html_150
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Some good background info is available here - this is a presentation before the last two expeditions. http://www.nioz.nl/public/symposia_workshops/arctic/17_semiletov.pdf
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Thanks!!
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Skier Bear in mind that the graphic is from 2006-2009 and does not represent the present state of things. HIPPO flights, that ended on 9/9/11 may add some to our understanding. “We observed that the ocean surface releases methane to the atmosphere all over the whole of the Arctic Ocean,” Wofsy says. http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/334245/title/HIPPO_reveals_climate_surprises
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Is it possible that Methane emissions are disrupting the stratification of say the Laptev Sea and disrupting ice formation? Could disruption of stratification have any effect on ocean convection?
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dabize Map data: AIRS 2006-2009 annual mean upper troposphere(359Hpa) methane concentration(ppm). I wonder how accurate surface measurements are when the gas is so much lighter than the surrounding air. CH4 will eventually disperse through the atmosphere, but the immediate effect of large releases could well be a stream heading upward with little effect on the composition of nearby gasses.
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Methane plumes may take a while to disperse through the atmosphere - Also CH4 is much lighter than air and could be expected to rapidly attain considerable height. Last fall we experienced an unexpected opening of an Arctic Ozone Hole - Methane reacts with ozone.
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Probably the break up of the Soviet Union - not the most environmentally conscious of regimes. BTW here's a graph from a little closer to the impacted area.
