HurricaneJosh

several local on air mets were syaing that indded but it is clear that the storm cycled and a new tornado MAY have formed just east of BHM

OK, gotcha. I was having a hard time believing that was one continuous surface circulation-- but, hey, it's been an extraordinary event. Why would I be surprised by anything at this point?

I can't wait to read the survey report on that one (or those ones)-- and to see some detailed damage maps.

Long-term, the combined deaths and dollar damage done by earthquakes in this country are going to make the totals from tornadoes look like a joke (and to a lesser degree, I believe the same is true of hurricanes.)

We've just been oddly lucky in the last 200 years.

Most of the energy of Northridge was directed into unpopulated mountains.

Not saying you're making this argument, but on board after board I've seen people who literally believe that it's impossible for an earthquake to kill more than 100 people unless it's in some smelly Third-World country (how they managed to mentally delete the Kobe quake, I don't know.)

We'll see a quake with a death toll in the thousands in this country within 20 years, I suspect.

Re: Northridge, a lot of energy was sent N, but some of the pockets of max (Level IX) shaking occurred in Sherman Oaks and Santa Monica-- two densely-populated parts of the metroplex-- and most of the city had very heavy (Level XII-XIII) shaking.

Sorry to go OT...

Back on topic... Did I hear correctly that the Tuscaloosa tornado started in MS, crossed AL, and moved into GA without lifting? If so, wow.

I'm amazed at the hostility toward a suggestion of simple building standards.

In CA it is simply an expectation-- and guess what? When our metroplex of 8 million had a direct hit by a quake that produced whopping Level IX shaking right in the city, only 75 people died-- out of 8 million. Strict CA building codes saved thousands of lives.

WAFF in Huntsville is reporting 147 in their corner of NW Alabama which doesn't include Birmingham or Tuscaloosa. These are apparently not all official numbers. Considering all factors, I would not rule out some of the larger numbers. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be just utterly shocked if the adding machines got into Katrina-like figures. We're talking about some densely-populated areas that got hit with what amounts to a death sentence.

I think the numbers will certainly grow. But just to clarify my own position, I'm not saying I personally think the death toll will rival Katrina's-- simply that, like Katrina, this event seems to have caused a much higher death toll than we've seen in a long while.

I'm not absolutely confident that wasn't exceeded.

Actually... Good point. As per your post earlier, God knows how many people might be unaccounted for in some of these very rural areas-- and it looks like even in the population centers, they're finding bodies everywhere.

There's definitely a Katrina parallel here, in the sense that we're seeing a contemporary death toll that seems strangely anachronistic-- like it's from another era.

This made me truly laugh out loud. As you have already stated, deaths were inevitable given the incredibly bad combination of factors yesterday for death. The more entertaining thing post-disaster is watching people become infatuated with the death toll and then say things like "isn't it horrible." Yeah okay...

I'd rather be talking about the wx behind the outbreak.

Agreed.

I was noticing there's more talk about the death toll than the actual tornadic events themselves, which were quite spectacular and unique. I'd like to know more about the dimensions and severities of some of these bigger storms-- but I guess we're still waiting for most of the survey teams to complete their work.

I also agree that deaths were inevitable. It is no one's fault. The earth is a constant stream of violent, natural processes-- tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.-- and sometimes we're just in the way of it. There is no one to blame. It is what it is. The NWS and the media were on top of this. Without them, the death toll probably would have been over 1,000.

Well... Even with the Moore tornado, if I'm not mistaken, there were only a few spot instances of EF5 damage (as is the case with any EF5 event; no tornado produces big, wide swaths of EF5 damage). Therefore, most of the imagery showing wide areas of devastation was actually showing EF3-4 damage. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

For me, a good rule-of-thumb difference between EF4 and EF5 is that with standard wood-frame homes, EF4 leaves piles of rubble, whereas EF5 actually leaves the site swept clean. Like, it won't even be clear what was at that location before the event occurred. So, a casual glance of the Tuscaloosa images I've seen says EF4 to me.

But, again, I am no expert and don't pretend to be. There are people in this thread who actually do these surveys, and I'm sure they'll shed much brighter light on this topic.

I am no tornado expert and I have yet to have any experience doing surveys, but the damage has to be representative of at least EF4 based on pics, possibly EF5. We will see.

Totally stripped trees with no branches, destroyed buildings of decent size, rubble everywhere, etc.

Agreed. I'm no expert, either-- I'm a severe part-timer, at best-- but a casual glance suggests EF4-- for the reasons you cited.

Back on the topic (and sorry I dragged it off a little)... What is the estimated EF rating for the Tuscaloosa event? I am sure it's discussed above, and sorry for asking y'all to rehash-- but it's a big thread. Does it look like an EF4?

It is. I guess I should remember how much CNN sucks anyways--maybe not the best example to use.

I agree it's seriously lame of any American news outlet to not make front-and-center a natural disaster that involves important regional population centers (a la Tuscaloosa) getting devastated.

P.S. MSNBC-- which I know a lot of people here hate-- makes the story the absolute top.

Shows how pathetic news is here in the US. BBC and and other European news sites have their front page news stories about this event. Here--CNN has the Obama birth certificate/Donald Trump crap as the front page news. What a joke.

Because its that mighty dollar and media scandals is more important to them people rather than lives taken, injuries, and property destruction from this tornado outbreak.

Yep it is all a big joke just like you said and I posted it in the post above this one.

The NYT has it as the top, front-page story, as does the LA Times, if that's any comfort.

not often you see over seas report on storms here in the us.. least not to my knowledge

They do report on the big events-- like when a major hurricane hits or when there's a tornado outbreak-- but it's unusual for a USA storm to be the top story. Look at the BBC right now-- it is the banner headline item: http://www.bbc.co.uk.

The outbreak is at the top of the news in Europe this morning-- not just in London, but even in Prague. Below is one of the main dailies here. The headline reads, "Storms and tornadoes ravage three states in the USA and kill 72 people".