rcostell

2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

No I bet everyone is trying extremely hard.  The casual skier has been ripping the ski industry for "not trying" but I think it's more of a lack of understanding of snowmaking too... or at least an educational piece.  

Places really need sustained 25-26F or below to make snow.  Days rotting at highs of 32F and lows of 24F really are just a waste.  We've gotten hammered by people wondering why it's 28F but there's no snowmaking.  Most of the energy efficient equipment now does need lower wet bulb temperatures.  The old school land frames that like Killington drags out in October can make snow at 28F but most of the newer stuff (energy efficient!) needs colder temperatures.  The large fan guns we have shut themselves off at 26F.  The main system at resorts can take hours to sufficiently charge too.  When charging the system, it takes a decent time to get sufficient water pressure up 2,000 vertical feet of terrain.  Resorts are pretty nimble, but in general snowmaking isn't going to fire up for 3-4 hours of temperatures during the early morning hours.  So like a brief low of 22F doesn't really do any good.  It needs to get down low and stay there for 6-8 hours at least to be worth firing up.

The temperatures have been very warm too.  Looking at the Mansfield COOP data for the Summit (ie. coldest place around)....

December 2020 was +7 to +8F above normal.  And here's where it impacts snowmaking:

Normal December... 22F Max and 8F Min

This December... 29F Max and 17F Min

The mean temperature this month was 22.5F (at the summit, coldest place on the hill) compared to 15.3F normally.  That's actually an extremely significant difference for our snowmaking.  Normal December temperatures are just cold enough for round the clock snowmaking on average, but if all elevations average 5-8F higher than normal we are crossing that threshold where it's very unfavorable.  MVL ASOS down in radiation-ville was +5.3... a significant positive departure.

In my semi-education opinion on snowmaking and weather, I think this start to the ski season has been a perception issue where the temperatures haven't been cold at all.  It's actually ridiculously warm for departures to be honest.  But it also has rotted for days and days of temperatures that are just cold enough to preserve snow or get natural to fall, but NOT be cold enough for decent snowmaking if that makes sense.

This month crossed the threshold with temperatures relative to normal where it has drastically impacted snowmaking operations at a lot of resorts.  The constant start up, shut down, start up, shut down, is a huge amount of human capital too.  The labor and time to do that over and over and over all month is not ideal.  Also with COVID restrictions, you used to be able to put a dozen snowmakers into a Bus Cat (Snowcat with transport cabin on back of it) and drop them off all at once.  Now snowmaking teams at area resorts need to transport each other one or two at a time.  Can't fill 12 seats in a Bus Cat and drop everyone off in one run, now it can take hours to get a full crew out where they need to be.

Lots of behind the scenes stuff, but hopefully it sheds some light on the snowmaking challenges so far this season with regards to average temperatures and how a warm month of this magnitude can affect it.

PF- Thanks for the great synopsis/insight into how this works. Makes it easy for "Joe Average" to understand the dynamics in play. We have a camp near Whiteface (on the north side, actually) They appear to be struggling to pull off a meaningful season by my viewpoint. Now I understand why....feel sorry for them in this situation. 

1 minute ago, Syrmax said:

Good point.  The Lefties are as triggered as the Rumpists. If only we could prevent both camps from voting due to mental incapacity and have a centrist government of adults...

Best thing I've read all night. Thanks for the reaffirmation that i'm not alone in feeling like I'm really tired of the sniping... back to the the topic in the thread title perhaps? 

6 hours ago, 40westwx said:

When are these republicans gonna learn. Mask holes.. Covidiots.. 

oh wait, he died of a Brain Aneurism..  

Confusing post...Is this a political discussion forum? 

Still mostly sleet in Haddon Heights with ZR mixed in. We were 32- back down to 31. Holding the line up 4 miles from the Delaware. 

55 minutes ago, rcostell said:

5 miles east of cc Philadelphia in Camden County NJ. 30 degrees, borderline heavy, transitioned to huge aggregates, wind dropped a bit. 2 inches down. Peaceful. Sleet line is close. 

Update: Sleet snow mix in Haddon Heights NJ. Up to 4+ inches - huge flakes and rates did some quick damage. We keep fighting off the sleet 4 miles from the Delaware. 

13 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

any obs from this area?

5 miles east of cc Philadelphia in Camden County NJ. 30 degrees, borderline heavy, transitioned to huge aggregates, wind dropped a bit. 2 inches down. Peaceful. Sleet line is close. 

4 minutes ago, Hoth said:

Yes, hard to find fault with that. Starting to blow up in Jersey too.

Heavy snow now here in Haddon Height, NJ- 4 miles east of PHL.  Enjoying it as a quick transition looms (probably).  Living the large totals your forum will experience vicariously. Enjoy and send more our way next time! 

1 hour ago, Newman said:

Well of course, I never root for death or destruction. But I'm a met student who loves extreme weather, as do most people on this board I assume. I'm here to track the storms and watch them atmospherically. What results from them is of course the worst part, but its fascinating. Take today for example. CAPE and instability is very limited. But look at the extreme 850mb jet we've got screaming above us! Shear and veering is off the charts. Hodographs are very curvy. In fact, get ready for a Tor watch, 80% by the SPC:

I understand and agree with this post. Same here.  I took your post above (in a weather forum) to be rooting for "damaging" outcome. Don't mean to be too tense. 

12 minutes ago, Newman said:

We'll see about this....I don't like the cloud debris and CINH around. Will need some sun or at least breaks in clouds to boost CAPE values.

 

So- Dear Sir- we DON"T want this. Virus is bad enough here. You DO realize that, right?  No offense... 

1 hour ago, ice1972 said:

In a parallel universe the 384 hr GFS always verifies....Fukin awesome winter this year there....buried....feet and feet of snow.....pack up to your chin.....icicles to the ground....they’re hauling away the snow in dump trucks there’s so much of it.....it’s crazy

...Friendly correction: Its COOperstown (HOF town name) 

I try. Live vicariously through you guys sometimes!

Long time Lurker from the Philly subform....its been like 4 months of November here.

Long time lurker, slowly learning. Great crew up here-living this one vicariously.  Free James!