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likewise, I agree 100%. I meant working at the same place though

If you come into this field thinking you will automatically make a lot of money without paying your dues, don't bother. I'm in this because I love meteorology, not because I need to drive a fancy car. For the record, I've had the same truck for about 12 years that's been through tornadoes, blizzards, floods, and hurricanes. If you love forecasting and love the science, you better be prepared to make some hard choices.

I for one was not interested in the National Weather Service. Don't get me wrong, they are great and I respect what they do, but I've always had an independent streak and wanted my own company. So I bit the bullet and went out to Oklahoma to learn how the business works. I got paid crap but learned a lot, just like any field. When I knew for certain I was under paid, I left to start my own firm.

If you think that getting a job in this field was going to be easy, let me welcome you to reality. Reality is the economy sucks and finding a job in this field that paid well even in a good economy would mean you'd have to take some not so good jobs and work a lot of off hours. But if you love this field, what does it matter if you work 9 to 5 (which you rarely ever will as a forecaster) or 10 PM to 6 AM. You are forecasting, studying the weather, you are doing what you love. No?

So the real question I have for this guy is are you going to quit just become life isn't easy, but let me tell you something, life isn't easy for any one. You either step up and have the balls to go out on your own or you don't. Basically it comes down to that.

I think we bit that same bullet!

Bad News. It will get worse in the next 20!

lol...I expect nothing less

yeah, I had no trouble with mids for the first 7-8 years but the last 1-2 years has been much tougher (I'm 33 now). I definitely hear ya!

huh. I did an internet search to find out more about this issue and found this article: http://www.eons.com/...rans-Preference

It seems to say the opposite regarding veterans preference. Anyway, I've generally been the most negative, I know, regarding the met employment scene but for recent NWS jobs I've applied for I have been "referred to hiring official". Not sure if that's what you guys were referring to regarding "making the panels". From what I've seen it doesn't look like anything has changed since Nov 1. I actually met with an MIC I have contacts with in late November and he did not mention anything about it specifically other than the whole "its super competitive" bit.

Yes, it is.

I don't think this is true since it would go against what NOAA Workforce management and the hiring MIC at my last interview passed along. Give NOAA workforce management a call, any of them. I was specifically told since Nov 1 they are more agressively hiring Veterans and now a veteran at 5/7/9 will block out a non-vet at any level. They only refer non-vets if too few vets apply. I was told by the NOAA Workforce manager in central that they use 5-7 as a general cutoff now. I was told by a different office MIC this last month that the one vet that was blocking all others was hired by a different office, hence why we were considered.

maybe they mean they are blocking that 1 spot on the panel. I was under the assumption that vets were generally given a free bump to the panel but not guaranteed anything. Again, this is all news to me, so I don't know for sure.

As far as I know and what is stated on the OPM site is that honorably discharged veterans receive a 5 point preference. Disabled vets receive 10 pts. They are then graded and ranked alongside everyone else. The MIC may then choose anyone for interviews and hire whomever they want after that. They are not required to hire a vet just because they made the panel.

This would be a huge change in the federal hiring practice and I have never heard of it or of it being in practice. Until I see it in writing I will assume the hiring policy has not changed wrt veterans.

ditto. That was my understanding as well.

Logic does tell you that eventually it would have major trickle down effects as generally vets are only qualified to be interns and not forecasters so, true...how WOULD they be able to fill those forecaster roles as people advanced and retired?

Not all forecasters are former interns. Some are hired right into that position. Also, wouldn't the current veteran's preference interns/forecasters being taking the open forecaster jobs, only to be replaced by new veteran's preference interns?

its not anything I have heard anything about. If this were to be true, you could essentially forget about getting a job out of college. Pretty much every new opening would go to military and it would cripple the ability for current NWS employees to advance. I think there may be some bill as suggested but I really doubt that it is a "you must hire veterans" bill.

These are good points, but a lot has changed since then. Most notable is the change in the veterans preference as before they were awarded additional points, now they are given the job. If a vet is on the panel at grade 5-7-9, after this new ruling passed down by Obama, they get the job. In other words, they will block out all other candidates from even being considered. Right now, since the November 1 ruling, veterans are pretty much blocking out everyone. Even positions in Alaska are being blocked by veterans. God Bless the veterans, but I wish being a veteran was not a requirement to get a job.

Regarding SCEPS, that has become even more challenging, and apparently they moved all SCEP decision making to Maryland instead of allowing the regional headquarters to make the decisions. Word is SCEP applications have exploded and most who eventually get it have a way in already.

That wasn't true even 4 months ago. Unless he signed this legislation since then, they are generally automatically on the panel with veteran's preference, but they aren't guaranteed the job.

During the spring semester of my freshman year (mid 90s), one of our professors (who at one point was the director of the school of meteorology) told us point blank in Intro to Professional Meteorology that "you probably will not find a job in meteorology." He suggested that we make sure that meteorology is what we really want to do (good with any major) and that it would be a difficult road if we continue. I knew from the time that I was very young that I wanted to be a meteorologist so I didn't flinch. However, at the same time I never really developed a plan about where I wanted my career to go. After earning my B.S. with decent grades and a minor in mathematics, I took the first job I could find since I was getting married. I worked outside of meteorology for about 9 months then finally landed an entry level job at a private firm in Houston. I wasn't looking the whole time so it really didn't take that long to find this job (2001). This job started at about 27K which is pretty good by industry standards and Houston isn't expensive really. I didn't like the area though (Houston = too big for me at the time) so I moved to Oklahoma City to work for one of the proverbial sweatshops. The pay and hours were poor but I was forecasting the weather and I was happy with my location. I will warn that the raises were poor (5% first year, 0% 2nd year) so even as a supervisor the pay was right around 22K (for straight overnight shifts).

After ~1 1/2 years in the private sector I had earned my stripes enough to get into the NWS. The timing was perfect I'm sure because, like everyone has said, the jobs are uber competitive. Since then, my career has reached heights that I never dreamed of. I know more about the science that I ever thought I would and I have much about difference computing systems. That said, I still work rotating shifts and likely will for several more years at a minimum. That is difficult but worth it in the end.

My advice is that no matter how much you THINK you know, there is someone better out there. It has been said numerous times that you need to separate yourself from the pack by going above and beyond the norm. That can mean several things depending on your aptitude. If you are a computer savvy person, I would go the way of learning GIS, Linux, GIS, Python, GIS, and/or Tcl/Java (did I mention GIS?). Others may want to wok on their leadership and speaking skills. Do some posters for NWA meetings while in college, volunteer for leadership positions (SCAMS e.g.) and work with scouts and such. I think the most important thing you can do is apply for a SCEP position for summer employment at one of the WFOs. This is BY FAR the easiest way to get into the organization. My final suggestion is to not limit yourself geographically to get in the door. If you have to go to Alaska, Nevada or North Dakota...DO IT! You can always move after you get in and gain some experience. I have moved 3 times already to move up the ladder and even though I never pictured myself in any of those locations ahead of time, I still enjoyed them all. There is far more to a resume than meteorology skills. In fact, met skills are only a very small piece of the puzzle. If anyone has any more specific questions I would be happy to answer them. Send me an email/PM and I'll get to them when I can.

I'll end this by saying that this career is NOT for everyone but if you work hard and are willing to sacrifice it can be very rewarding. You just have to be willing to bide your time and not expect instant results.