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January 2023


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5 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


It’s showing the biggest dump of snow on the front end out of all the other global models. I’m skeptical but we’ll see. Verbatim, it has a plowable snowfall for Westchester, Bergen, Rockland on north and west. IMO it’s overdone

GFS and Ukie are kind of similar. CMC has basically nothing.  

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40 minutes ago, Wxoutlooksblog said:

I don't think NYC's Central Park, will see measurable on Wednesday. I suspect it will be 45 minutes to an hour of sleet with a few big wet flakes mixed in then all rain. Same for locations on Long Island. The HP to the north is moving out quickly. 

WX/PT

 

Even if it snows they probably won't measure it properly as the rain will wash it away within an hour. I think at least 50% CPK sees at least 0.1 on Wed. 

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12 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


It’s showing the biggest dump of snow on the front end out of all the other global models. I’m skeptical but we’ll see. Verbatim, it has a plowable snowfall for Westchester, Bergen, Rockland on north and west. IMO it’s overdone

If the snow is coming in on 15-20 mph and increasing ESE wind, any snow near the city and coast will be very short lived. The preceding airmass is stale at best for this time of year so even if it comes in like a wall it'll be fighting to get the temp down to 32 for the period of time before warm surface air surges in. Couldn't care less what the Euro or any model shows, it's a story that's happened here again and again. If it comes in showery/broken up, maybe there's a brief snow/sleet mix that goes very fast over to rain and may not even accumulate. 

If it comes in heavy/like a wall, I can see there being a quick inch or so north of the LIE on Long Island where it's sheltered a bit from the onshore flow and immediate NW suburbs. The advisory type amounts would be around I-84 and NW of I-287. Any snow outside the far NW areas will be gone by the end since surface temps will surge into the 40s and around 50 near the city/coast. 

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If the snow is coming in on 15-20 mph and increasing ESE wind, any snow near the city and coast will be very short lived. The preceding airmass is stale at best for this time of year so even if it comes in like a wall it'll be fighting to get the temp down to 32 for the period of time before warm surface air surges in. Couldn't care less what the Euro or any model shows, it's a story that's happened here again and again. If it comes in showery/broken up, maybe there's a brief snow/sleet mix that goes very fast over to rain and may not even accumulate. 
If it comes in heavy/like a wall, I can see there being a quick inch or so north of the LIE on Long Island where it's sheltered a bit from the onshore flow and immediate NW suburbs. The advisory type amounts would be around I-84 and NW of I-287. Any snow outside the far NW areas will be gone by the end since surface temps will surge into the 40s and around 50 near the city/coast. 

I agree. To me this is an I-84 north WWA event, south of there? Not so much. The high is moving away, very marginal boundary layer, low cutting into Lake Erie, during the day, this isn’t screaming big front end dump south of I-84
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6 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


I agree. To me this is an I-84 north WWA event, south of there? Not so much. The high is moving away, very marginal boundary layer, low cutting into Lake Erie, during the day, this isn’t screaming big front end dump south of I-84

I wouldn't be that surprised if the NYC area and North of I84 got similar snow amounts though because it will depend on where the frontogensis is ahead of the mid level warming and where/if that dumping band sets up. Whatever falls will definitely have a better chance of sticking around north of I84. 

Thats not me predicting big snow for NYC area, I don't see anyone seeing more than 1-3 inches in this subforum in this setup due to the mid level warming. 

 

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1 hour ago, Wxoutlooksblog said:

I don't think NYC's Central Park, will see measurable on Wednesday. I suspect it will be 45 minutes to an hour of sleet with a few big wet flakes mixed in then all rain. Same for locations on Long Island. The HP to the north is moving out quickly. 

WX/PT

 

IMO the record does not mean too much, I mean the difference between less than and inch and nothing.

Just hope we see a real storm this season.

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3 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


I agree. To me this is an I-84 north WWA event, south of there? Not so much. The high is moving away, very marginal boundary layer, low cutting into Lake Erie, during the day, this isn’t screaming big front end dump south of I-84

And Wed could actually be a decent front ender for I-84 and much of NE PA/central PA/mid Hudson Valley. It's not much colder there but the ESE wind isn't a killer there like it is near the coast and there is enough of a high it's coming into so there's a good period of overrunning before the warm surface air comes in. The Euro has an area of 6-10"+ from State College/Altoona through Albany. That I can see happening, but then again the sleet always ruins things before models expect since they often underdo the warm mid levels, so something to watch. 

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If the snow is coming in on 15-20 mph and increasing ESE wind, any snow near the city and coast will be very short lived. The preceding airmass is stale at best for this time of year so even if it comes in like a wall it'll be fighting to get the temp down to 32 for the period of time before warm surface air surges in. Couldn't care less what the Euro or any model shows, it's a story that's happened here again and again. If it comes in showery/broken up, maybe there's a brief snow/sleet mix that goes very fast over to rain and may not even accumulate. 
If it comes in heavy/like a wall, I can see there being a quick inch or so north of the LIE on Long Island where it's sheltered a bit from the onshore flow and immediate NW suburbs. The advisory type amounts would be around I-84 and NW of I-287. Any snow outside the far NW areas will be gone by the end since surface temps will surge into the 40s and around 50 near the city/coast. 

Also, want to add, this is where the +NAO and lack of a 50/50 low is killing us. If there was a -NAO block, even a transient thumb ridge to lock a 50/50 in and create confluence to hold the high to the north, this probably would have been an area wide WSW event, even with this marginal airmass in place. An arctic high obviously would had been ideal but if there was a -NAO and 50/50, this event would have been way different
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13 minutes ago, jm1220 said:

And Wed could actually be a decent front ender for I-84 and much of NE PA/central PA/mid Hudson Valley. It's not much colder there but the ESE wind isn't a killer there like it is near the coast and there is enough of a high it's coming into so there's a good period of overrunning before the warm surface air comes in. The Euro has an area of 6-10"+ from State College/Altoona through Albany. That I can see happening, but then again the sleet always ruins things before models expect since they often underdo the warm mid levels, so something to watch. 

This seems more like a regular cutter to me than an SWFE. I have a hard time seeing PA/NW NJ or the MId Hudson Valley seeing 6-10 inches. Maybe Albany area to Northern NE could get those amounts but this storm should be bringing a lot of mid level warming with a sub 1000 low headed toward the lakes and the transfer to a secondary seems to take place pretty late.    

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2 minutes ago, Winterweatherlover said:

This seems more like a regular cutter to me than an SWFE. I have a hard time seeing PA/NW NJ or the MId Hudson Valley seeing 6-10 inches. Maybe Albany area to Northern NE could get those amounts but this storm should be bringing a lot of mid level warming. 

Nobody in NW NJ and mid hudson valley is seeing anywhere near those totals. Poughkeepsie area is maybe 1-2, Albany area is 3-6. Only places seeing 6+ are Catskills, Helderbergs, Berkshires and places well north. 

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5 minutes ago, Winterweatherlover said:

NAM still showing snow for NYC/LI tomorrow. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some backend flakes but there won't be accumulation. 

...you want to see snow?..put on the Bill's- Bengals game on CBS..

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2 hours ago, HeadInTheClouds said:

I mentioned Catskills because you said elevated far N and W. I don't consider Sussex and Putnam counties far NW from NYC. As far as where the storm will impact the most I agree with everything you said, especially about I-84 corridor Fishkill-Beacon area. Southern Dutchess county definitely could go either way. I think Poughkeepsie on north sees 1-2. 

Fair enough. I guess I usually think in terms of regional forums or even network TV viewing areas. Within our forum, I consider the Hudson highlands and NNJ ridgelines to be the elevated N&W. Maybe the Poconos to Shawangunk Ridge to southern Taconics could be considered part of that, as the far N&W.

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It’s the 3k NAM but the latest run had a nice ending for this evening/tomorrow’s storm especially for the city and east. I doubt it amounts to much but there’s an outside chance this CCB can develop and impact most if the upper air lows can develop enough and keep moisture as the column cools back down. The best odds for that are probably in CT and Suffolk County. 

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The 12z EC looks most promising for Wed. I has a fortuitously timed slug of overrunning snows before mid-levels become unsupportive. Even with that, the 10 day grand total clown map for NYC shows 2.1" with 10:1... so really a coating to an inch considering surface temps. Just brutal. Peak climo.

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