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Fall 2022 Medium-Long Range Discussion


CAPE
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17 minutes ago, CAPE said:

Lets just see if we can actually get our first freeze early next week. Looks marginal for the lowlands, but decent chance most areas (outside of DC proper) can get below 32 for a few hours Monday and/or Tuesday morning.

Seems like a “hard freeze” will wait until late next week for most, but Mon-Tues should be enough for BWI and RIC to hit 32 or just below.

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Pattern as advertised on GEFS is 'getting there' towards the end of the month. The (upcoming) Pac jet retraction has the ideal ridge/trough position around AK inverted as depicted, so that could use some work. The AO is slightly+ to neutral. NAO trending negative.. moving into Dec ideally we see the NA +heights shifted a bit more over central/southern GL, with the associated trough further SE towards the 50-50 region, and some improvement in the Pacific. All that said, we see winter storms quite often with less than ideal h5 patterns. Need to get into the front end of snow climo period as much as anything.

1669550400-SAJ5TAdJx3Y.png

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43 minutes ago, yoda said:

Hmmm

 

 

I made a post about the 'potential' during this period a couple days ago, and it has been discussed since. The advertised pattern has been pretty good, with possible waves riding the boundary, but climo is a major problem. Next week should feature legit wintry conditions (with some snow chances) for the western highlands, but further east, probably just some chilly weather and any wave that tracks close enough would probably be rain. Never know though- some frozen not out of the question esp inland.

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20 minutes ago, CAPE said:

I made a post about the 'potential' during this period a couple days ago, and it has been discussed since. The advertised pattern has been pretty good, with possible waves riding the boundary, but climo is a major problem. Next week should feature legit wintry conditions (with some snow chances) for the western highlands, but further east, probably just some chilly weather and any wave that tracks close enough would probably be rain. Never know though- some frozen not out of the question esp inland.

Agree. Areas at low elevation at low latitude that once again see early measurable snow are the Southern Plains and lower Ms Valley. Pretty much same as last couple years.

     Oklahoma City is getting their 1st tonight. 

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16 minutes ago, Daniel Boone said:

Agree. Areas at low elevation at low latitude that once again see early measurable snow are the Southern Plains and lower Ms Valley. Pretty much same as last couple years.

     Oklahoma City is getting their 1st tonight. 

Early season cold tends to drain into the intermountain west/ the N central US, and from there it can sometimes make it into the south central US. So yes, not that uncommon for places like that to see measurable snow sooner than many areas of the MA.

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Regarding the late week period and storm potential- as advertised there may be enough cold nearby to get involved(for favored areas) should a wave track close enough. Guidance has generally been suggesting a southern shortwave ejecting northeastward along the boundary at that time, but the depicted location/orientation of the NS energy dropping down with an amplified EPO ridge(breaking) would tend to dampen it and shunt it eastward off the coast to our south. Far enough out that the location/interaction of these features will likely change some. A thread the needle type deal, and fighting climo for the lowlands.

6z GFS h5 heights/ vorticity for reference-

1668762000-QYjZKDYqvcc.png

1668762000-iy3MfyxkNP4.png

 

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1 hour ago, CAPE said:

Regarding the late week period and storm potential- as advertised there may be enough cold nearby to get involved(for favored areas) should a wave track close enough. Guidance has generally been suggesting a southern shortwave ejecting northeastward along the boundary at that time, but the depicted location/orientation of the NS energy dropping down with an amplified EPO ridge(breaking) would tend to dampen it and shunt it eastward off the coast to our south. Far enough out that the location/interaction of these features will likely change some. A thread the needle type deal, and fighting climo for the lowlands.

6z GFS h5 heights/ vorticity for reference-

1668762000-QYjZKDYqvcc.png

1668762000-iy3MfyxkNP4.png

 

At least we are back to talking about it…thanks

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2 hours ago, CAPE said:

Regarding the late week period and storm potential- as advertised there may be enough cold nearby to get involved(for favored areas) should a wave track close enough. Guidance has generally been suggesting a southern shortwave ejecting northeastward along the boundary at that time, but the depicted location/orientation of the NS energy dropping down with an amplified EPO ridge(breaking) would tend to dampen it and shunt it eastward off the coast to our south. Far enough out that the location/interaction of these features will likely change some. A thread the needle type deal, and fighting climo for the lowlands.

6z GFS h5 heights/ vorticity for reference-

1668762000-QYjZKDYqvcc.png

1668762000-iy3MfyxkNP4.png

 

Yep, 0z GFS shows a possible path to some snow for the lowlands, has the southern sortwave make it higher up the coast due to the NS energy staying further north and less "flat". It also appears to slow down the northern energy helping the southern part up the coast. 

1350831453_snow0z.png.2772129aa6f895c81f9d377f1e8afdf7.png1807051896_nosnow6z.png.a6787a0bc2d68727f40723fbeaeea905.png

The 6z GFS shows like @CAPE said a scenario where the northern shortwave acts to squash the southern energy before it can make it far enough up the coast. This is further worsened by the northern energy coming in faster and less consolidated.

The trends to watch for this time period IMO (which probably isn't worth a lot) would be to see the northern energy become less stretched out and slow down a bit in relation to the southern wave, which would allow it to make it's way up the coast. 

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32 minutes ago, SnowenOutThere said:

Yep, 0z GFS shows a possible path to some snow for the lowlands, has the southern sortwave make it higher up the coast due to the NS energy staying further north and less "flat". It also appears to slow down the northern energy helping the southern part up the coast. 

1350831453_snow0z.png.2772129aa6f895c81f9d377f1e8afdf7.png1807051896_nosnow6z.png.a6787a0bc2d68727f40723fbeaeea905.png

The 6z GFS shows like @CAPE said a scenario where the northern shortwave acts to squash the southern energy before it can make it far enough up the coast. This is further worsened by the northern energy coming in faster and less consolidated.

The trends to watch for this time period IMO (which probably isn't worth a lot) would be to see the northern energy become less stretched out and slow down a bit in relation to the southern wave, which would allow it to make it's way up the coast. 

I used the 6z GFS to illustrate the general setup. There will be fairly significant differences in the details from run to run on the ops at this range. The ens means suggest a weakish wave tracking NE off the NC coast for now.

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Up in Perrysburg OH this weekend for a college buddy’s wedding. It went from 66 degrees and sunny yesterday to 34 and snow today. Fatty flakes too. Not really sticking to much but cartops, but beautiful nonetheless. Definitely feel bad for my friends who have to move their wedding indoors due to the snow :lol:

Winters almost back lads! This wave for next week looks somewhat interesting for us down in the DMV. Could see a bit of snow fall. From the typically colder areas from PSU over to Northern carroll and points WNW, particularly along the Allegheny front in WVA and W MD. Climo says it’s likely snow tv for 90%+ of us and a sloppy, cold rain near I-95, but we’ve seen crazier stuff happen in November.   

Thanks for the updates @Cape! Been waiting a year to see your wonderful posts. #SetupMaster

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