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Hurricane Ian


Scott747
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Just now, CoastalWx said:

Structurally might look good, but you can't tell what it looks like from the air with a 10' wall of water moving through.

Sure, you can't do much to prevent flooding. But everything is still in tact for personal property salvage and eventual demolition.

 

But for the areas that didn't get storm surge, it will save hundreds of $millions

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16 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Structurally might look good, but you can't tell what it looks like from the air with a 10' wall of water moving through.

Exactly, anywhere that had surge flooding has tons of water damage inside and has to be gutted, if not torn down because mold will start up soon. Unless these building codes have mold resistant walls. 

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21 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Sure, you can't do much to prevent flooding. But everything is still in tact for personal property salvage and eventual demolition.

 

But for the areas that didn't get storm surge, it will save hundreds of $millions

Everything is in tact for demolition? Well thank the lord. Instead of a smoldering pile of trash, I have a well organized one. Thank goodness for modern building codes.

 

What am I missing here? 

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4 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

Everything is in tact for demolition? Well thank the lord. Instead of a smoldering pile of trash, I have a well organized one. Thank goodness for modern building codes.

 

What am I missing here? 

Unless they’re building sea walls after this, one day the devastation will just happen again on those barrier islands/surge zones. Not sure what building code can keep the building from taking horrible water damage. Saw it firsthand after Sandy, buildings from the outside looked not terrible but inside- totally wrecked and in many cases needed to be demolished. The barrier islands may be easier, in those cases the demolishing was already taken care of. 

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6 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

Everything is in tact for demolition? Well thank the lord. Instead of a smoldering pile of trash, I have a well organized one. Thank goodness for modern building codes.

 

What am I missing here? 

Easier to clean up crap that's in one place than scouring the island for it.  Do you want to clean up a pile of leaves that's in one pile, or rake the yard first?

When you have hundreds of houses that are no longer fit for habitation (and thousands of people all wanting their houses rebuilt), that time, money and effort adds up when you have to rake the leaves first.

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building codes absolutely work.  You can always sink piers deeper and raise the first floor higher if you're trying to keep a building safe from storm surge.  You can always reinforce roofs and walls so they can withstand cat 5 winds.

It just takes more money, but really not THAT much more.  I do firmly believe that any building in a surge prone area should have to be self insured though.

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Buoy 41004, which is at 32.5N, 79.1W, is very near the center. It last reported at 10:40 AM a SLP of 28.96" or 981 mb. Winds had become much lighter, with the center barely south then, at 14 knots from the ESE. Two hours earlier they were at 43 knots, gusting to 58 knots. All of the constantly updated data is here along with a cool recent photo of the high seas:

https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=41004</i><br

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Just now, ATDoel said:

building codes absolutely work.  You can always sink piers deeper and raise the first floor higher if you're trying to keep a building safe from storm surge.  You can always reinforce roofs and walls so they can withstand cat 5 winds.

It just takes more money, but really not THAT much more.  I do firmly believe that any building in a surge prone area should have to be self insured though.

The rebuilt homes there will likely have to be on stilts or have their main living area 9ft or higher above ground level in order to get any kind of flood insurance after this (and FL already has an insurance crisis ongoing). It’s going to be a rough road. I’d say that some of those islands may not be worth rebuilding but given the population boom, I’m sure they all will be. 

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7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Easier to clean up crap that's in one place than scouring the island for it.  Do you want to clean up a pile of leaves that's in one pile, or rake the yard first?

When you have hundreds of houses that are no longer fit for habitation (and thousands of people all wanting their houses rebuilt), that time, money and effort adds up when you have to rake the leaves first.

What if I pulled out the sentimental stuff when I evacuated.

Demolitions cost money. A lot of money. I'd prefer mother nature take the pile of remaining leaves and send it elsewhere. 

I guess if you're going to make any cogent argument, it's that it's better for the environment and people who defy recommendations/mandates to prepare and evacuate. The rest of this sounds like sound bites from a architectural engineering company.

There's some areas you just don't build. That's the engineering answer to this surge prone problem.

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3 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

What if I pulled out the sentimental stuff when I evacuated.

Demolitions cost money. A lot of money. I'd prefer mother nature take the pile of remaining leaves and send it elsewhere. 

I guess if you're going to make any cogent argument, it's that it's better for the environment and people who defy recommendations/mandates to prepare and evacuate. The rest of this sounds like sound bites from a architectural engineering company.

There's some areas you just don't build. That's the engineering answer to this surge prone problem.

The debate about where not to build is a different one than how to most efficiently do a widespread mass cleanup of debris.

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2 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said:

Seems that when tropical systems make landfall and are transitioning to extra-tropical, the landfall speeds up a bit.

It’s being Fujiwara-ed around the upper level disturbance it’s getting near I think. It’s making one last attempt to wrap some convection around the center, but 85mph looks to be the landfall strength. 

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21 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Easier to clean up crap that's in one place than scouring the island for it.  Do you want to clean up a pile of leaves that's in one pile, or rake the yard first?

When you have hundreds of houses that are no longer fit for habitation (and thousands of people all wanting their houses rebuilt), that time, money and effort adds up when you have to rake the leaves first.

That's the unspoken (mostly) problem with disasters like this - the amount of trash that needs to be disposed of. Clean up creates a TREMENDOUS amount of garbage that has to do somewhere, and often in places without adequate facilities to deal with it. Not to mention the massive amount of garbage that gets pulled back into the sea to be spread out throughout the region. 

And think about it: they're going to be pulling nails and other hazards out of those beaches for years, especially those shallow bays. 

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17 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Do the building codes really work though? I mean, why are people able to build houses in these areas where a strong hurricane can cause your entire house to be engulfed by water?

like look at Punta Gorda. Houses stacked on top of each other on slivers of solid land surrounded by marsh

They work on wind, not so much on water. While it’s devastating to see, most people choose to live near the ocean…they (should) know the risk. And as the population continues to increase in beach front areas, we’ll see more destructive hurricanes play out unfortunately. 

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6 minutes ago, Martytdx said:

That's the unspoken (mostly) problem with disasters like this - the amount of trash that needs to be disposed of. Clean up creates a TREMENDOUS amount of garbage that has to do somewhere, and often in places without adequate facilities to deal with it. Not to mention the massive amount of garbage that gets pulled back into the sea to be spread out throughout the region. 

And think about it: they're going to be pulling nails and other hazards out of those beaches for years, especially those shallow bays. 

Yup, this will really take months just to get a basic standard of living back in the devastated areas and years to start to get things back to a new kind of normal. The bridges taken out just themselves will take-6 months to repair? 

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38 minutes ago, jm1220 said:

Unless they’re building sea walls after this, one day the devastation will just happen again on those barrier islands/surge zones. Not sure what building code can keep the building from taking horrible water damage. Saw it firsthand after Sandy, buildings from the outside looked not terrible but inside- totally wrecked and in many cases needed to be demolished. The barrier islands may be easier, in those cases the demolishing was already taken care of. 

1st floor needs to be 10 feet high, that’s the code in Bonita

 

 

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10 minutes ago, mappy said:

yup. not that hard to grasp. 

absolutely incorrect.  You can build homes that are essentially surge proof.  You sink reinforced concrete piers into the bedrock, raise the first floor above the surge zone, and install break away walls on the ground level.  As long as you keep your utilities above the surge zone, even a catastrophic flood would do minimal damage to a house built this way.

 

What you can't do is build a normal slab on grade home and expect it to survive storm surge.

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