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Feb 1 -3 GHD III


Brian D
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12 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

What qualifies as an official spotter if not Cocarahs or coop observer? Weather stations have nothing to do with snowfall measurements. I measured over the New York State record posted above in nov of 2014 as well under 24 hours. 

COOP observer and NWS OBS sites are more the official route.

CoCoRaHs is supplemental.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said:

COOP observer and NWS OBS sites are more the official route.

CoCoRaHs is supplemental.

Not enough coop observers in the area. Now that map makes more sense. There were many towns in the Buffalo area that blew past that 49” total in 24 hours in November of 2014. Must have been cocarahs not coop. 

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Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

Not enough coop observers in the area. Now that map makes more sense. There were many towns in the Buffalo area that blew past that 49” total in 24 hours in November of 2014. Must have been cocarahs not coop. 

It may be up to the state climatologist and / or local NWS offices to submit possible records for verification as well. In NJ last winter someone measured more than the state record by a couple of inches in their backyard in a huge Nor'easter we got. Mt Holly put it in their PNS and the state climatologist did investigate it. The end result was snow blowing off a roof may have inflated the total so it was tossed. Then again the state climatologist also thinks the NJ state record (that is like 100 years) wasn't properly measured either so who knows with some of these things. 

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8 minutes ago, OHweather said:

It may be up to the state climatologist and / or local NWS offices to submit possible records for verification as well. In NJ last winter someone measured more than the state record by a couple of inches in their backyard in a huge Nor'easter we got. Mt Holly put it in their PNS and the state climatologist did investigate it. The end result was snow blowing off a roof may have inflated the total so it was tossed. Then again the state climatologist also thinks the NJ state record (that is like 100 years) wasn't properly measured either so who knows with some of these things. 

That makes sense but we had 10-15 coop/cocarahs get over 49" in 24 hours. Here are just a few not including my own. The picture in my avatar is from round 1 of that event in south cheektowaga. Sorry to get too off topic. Back to the storm.

     …ERIE COUNTY…

    4 S Cheektowaga              65.0
       Lancaster                 63.0
      Gardenville                60.0
      West Seneca                57.0
    2 W West Seneca              51.0
          Elma                   51.0
      Orchard Park               48.0
      Wales Center               48.0
      1 N Hamburg                48.0
 …WYOMING COUNTY…

      Cowlesville                56.0
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1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

That makes sense but we had 10-15 coop/cocarahs get over 49" in 24 hours. Here are just a few not including my own. The picture in my avatar is from round 1 of that event in south cheektowaga.

     …ERIE COUNTY…

    4 S Cheektowaga              65.0
       Lancaster                 63.0
      Gardenville                60.0
      West Seneca                57.0
    2 W West Seneca              51.0
          Elma                   51.0
      Orchard Park               48.0
      Wales Center               48.0
      1 N Hamburg                48.0
 …WYOMING COUNTY…

      Cowlesville                56.0

I honestly don't know then. If it was that many, would have to assume it would've been investigated and would say it's relatively shameful if it wasn't. Or perhaps that figure is using data that hasn't been updated recently. With snowfall and tornado climatology and records I've come to realize that we "do the best we can" (in most instances) but that there's too many variables involved for them to be more than rough approximations...sadly. 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

 Weather stations have nothing to do with snowfall measurements. 

I'm not sure what you mean.

NWS has a team of volunteers all across the country who do ground reports of snowfall using NWS-required guidelines and NWS equipment, to ensure accurate measurements. For the purpose of climate recordkeeping, these Co-op volunteers only observe snowfall at sites where an actual human is on site collecting data (versus an ASOS).

There are also a few WFOs where local TV station or FAA employees are authorized to be official reporters. But this isn't typical. Then of course, there are actual NWS employees and NWS offices.

The problem with Cocorahs and even trained storm spotters (who aren't the same as Co-op observers) is there's a greater likelihood their reports will inaccurate since they haven't undergone the training to measure snow properly and don't have the proper equipment. We don't know if they're slant sticking, measuring drifts, etc.

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6 minutes ago, Powerball said:

I'm not sure what you mean.

NWS has a team of volunteers all across the country who do ground reports of snowfall using NWS-required guidelines and NWS equipment, to ensure accurate measurements. For the purpose of climate recordkeeping, these Co-op volunteers only observe snowfall at sites where an actual human is on site collecting data (versus an ASOS).

There are also a few WFOs where local TV station or FAA employees are authorized to be official reporters. But this isn't typical. Then of course, there are actual NWS employees and NWS offices.

The problem with Cocorahs and even trained storm spotters (who aren't the same as Co-op observers) is there's a greater likelihood their reports will inaccurate since they haven't undergone the training to measure snow properly and don't have the proper equipment. We don't know if they're slant sticking, measuring drifts, etc.

Yes. I understand what a co-op observer does. There just isn't enough of them to cover localized lake effect snow to get a general idea of snowfall totals. When 10-15 reports are coming in from cocarahs and NWS employees of greater than 49" of snow in 24 hours. The NWS employee from Elma reported over 54" than that chart is wrong. Cocarahs has training classes as well, I've taken a few.

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