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January Medium/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr
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2 hours ago, yoda said:

lol Day 10-11 on 06z GFS... now thats some crazy snowstorm development that misses DC... but smokes NC/Eastern Shore on up to PHL and into SNE

At the d10-11 range, as long as a storm is in the vicinity, I'm good. Heck, I'm already all in for that weekend period, just in case this could be our last chance this winter for a bigger snow this year, assuming the typical nina se ridge conditions come back next month. But we shall see... 

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22 minutes ago, Ji said:
45 minutes ago, yoda said:
 

La ninas tend to make a come back late Feb through mid march. March 2001 redux coming

Weird year right? A flip to an annoying -pna makes a lot of sense unfortunately. The west got straight blitzed with a storm cycle to close the year then mostly ridge/dry since. Time for that to change. Doesn't mean we roast. No idea. But a trough returning in the west for a time seems highly likely to my gut. Then, like you said, maybe another busy cold period. 

A -pna in Feb isn't always bad anyways. Depends on how the wavelengths set up. Canada remains good for manufacturing cold air in general. A -pna in that environment is far from the same when then pac jet goes zonal. That's a shutout 

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7 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Weird year right? A flip to an annoying -pna makes a lot of sense unfortunately. The west got straight blitzed with a storm cycle to close the year then mostly ridge/dry since. Time for that to change. Doesn't mean we roast. No idea. But a trough returning in the west for a time seems highly likely to my gut. Then, like you said, maybe another busy cold period. 

A -pna in Feb isn't always bad anyways. Depends on how the wavelengths set up. Canada remains good for manufacturing cold air in general. A -pna in that environment is far from the same when then pac jet goes zonal. That's a shutout 

agree. Alot of people just assume that we go back to the December pattern but i think there will be windows where we can get something lucky. I would be surprised if we didnt get an early march event though but the non stop tracking days will likely end soon

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22 hours ago, Anyweather said:

Whoa?! Forgive me for butting in but how is that cost justified. Access issues? Distance from suppliers? That’s $530/ sq ft.!

300k is just for the framing members and log walls.  The other 600k is basically everything else.  Shipping is actually only 2500.  I will say they have everything you can think of broken out so there wouldn't be any surprises.  

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1 hour ago, yoda said:

Super LR EPS (Days 11-15) shows winter may be taking a vacation soon looking at h5... trough returns out west and ridging returns for us

 

Makes sense. The pattern we are in started to take shape the end of December. If the western trough comes back the first week of February that would be 5 weeks of a solid  pattern for the East.

Pretty darn good in my opinion. 

Doesn't mean we revert to a shut out pattern as a -pna can work in February as long as the entire pacific doesn't completely go the sh#t.

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14 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Weird year right? A flip to an annoying -pna makes a lot of sense unfortunately. The west got straight blitzed with a storm cycle to close the year then mostly ridge/dry since. Time for that to change. Doesn't mean we roast. No idea. But a trough returning in the west for a time seems highly likely to my gut. Then, like you said, maybe another busy cold period. 

A -pna in Feb isn't always bad anyways. Depends on how the wavelengths set up. Canada remains good for manufacturing cold air in general. A -pna in that environment is far from the same when then pac jet goes zonal. That's a shutout 

pna definitely looks to go negative but not nearly as bad as in December. epo and wpo look to remain generally negative. There will be a lot of cold nearby so it will come down to timing and luck.

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3 minutes ago, HighStakes said:

pna definitely looks to go negative but not nearly as bad as in December. epo and wpo look to remain generally negative. There will be a lot of cold nearby so it will come down to timing and luck.

Exactly. I mean sure, -pna is not favored here. Never has never will. Not all pnas are equally bad. As long as the western half of Canada keeps the -epo cold factory intact, we're always just a front or 2 away from snow temps. Seen far worse in recent years. That's for sure. Lol

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11 hours ago, Ji said:
12 hours ago, psuhoffman said:
The adjustment we need is well within a typical error at that range. But if we really want to increase our chances to maximize potential getting that tpv back towards Hudson Bay would make it a lot easier to get something to amplify before it’s off the coast. 

The eps snow mean for us 2 days ago for Friday was 10 inches

The euro has a very pronounced over amplification bias in the medium range. You’ve said as much many times. So when it was doing that mainly becauss it was the only model showing that amplified a SW it was pretty obviously bunk. There are times we could believe the euro on its own. If it’s a split flow STJ wave then I might buy the euro v all others. But never when it’s over amplifying a NS SW. 

1 hour ago, Ji said:

agree. Alot of people just assume that we go back to the December pattern but i think there will be windows where we can get something lucky. I would be surprised if we didnt get an early march event though but the non stop tracking days will likely end soon

You really can be one of the best posters when you want to be!  For the record I enjoy some of your melts and rants but it’s better when it’s some of the time and when it’s warranted not 99% of the time. 

30 minutes ago, snowmagnet said:

Mike Masco says the AO/NAO is looking to go negative in February. Is there support for that?

I’ve not seen a lot in terms of the typical Strat tea leaves that would support, only speculation. But he could be simply playing the odds using the recent cyclical trends and I’m doing that myself. It’s unlikely based on recent trends the NAO stays positive the rest of winter.  I would favor later in Feb into March myself though. 

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I accidentally posted this in banter but it’s relevant to our future analysis.

The Gfs love has been a bit exaggerated. It did get the Jan 3 storm right first but only by about 12 hours. The other guidance started trending north also just one cycle later. And the GFS way over compensated. 24-36 hours out it showed 6” for me and had 2-3” way up onto central PA.  I didn’t see a single flake. 
 

The Gfs was awful with the next wave. It was consistently showing .4-.6 qpf along 95. We had 15-1 ratios. That would have been 6-8” if it was right. The NAM and Euro were much much better with that storm. 

It wasn’t very good with the amplified inside runner either. Actually the ggem probably did best with locking on to the extreme solution early and sticking with it. Gfs teased with a couple runs of big snow then went too far west for a couple runs then back too far east.  And it looks to have been awful today.  It’s been better then the joke it used to be and it’s been better than the euro but it’s not been killing it every time like some seem to think  

The Euro criticism has been valid though. It’s really mishandled several NS SS interactions lately, which to be fair was a known weakness but not making excuses it’s been bad and anecdotally it seems more jumpy and prone to tangents in the medium range since the last major resolution upgrade years ago. It does do an impressive job for a global with meso scale features now but maybe it’s now got some of the high resolution CAMs issues that can become problematic with Synoptics at range. Not sure that was really a good trade. Maybe, and just speculation, having a short range euro at high resolution and a longer range lower resolution focused on Synoptics past 72 hours would be better. 

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1 minute ago, WxUSAF said:

Major Jan 3 vibes from how the Icon develops next weeks chance. Northern stream gets out of the way, brings cold air, and let’s the southern stream ride over us.

GFS was close to the same thing, southern stream just needs to hang back a little bit.

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1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

I accidentally posted this in banter but it’s relevant to our future analysis.

The Gfs love has been a bit exaggerated. It did get the Jan 3 storm right first but only by about 12 hours. The other guidance started trending north also just one cycle later. And the GFS way over compensated. 24-36 hours out it showed 6” for me and had 2-3” way up onto central PA.  I didn’t see a single flake. 
 

The Gfs was awful with the next wave. It was consistently showing .4-.6 qpf along 95. We had 15-1 ratios. That would have been 6-8” if it was right. The NAM and Euro were much much better with that storm. 

It wasn’t very good with the amplified inside runner either. Actually the ggem probably did best with locking on to the extreme solution early and sticking with it. Gfs teased with a couple runs of big snow then went too far west for a couple runs then back too far east.  And it looks to have been awful today.  It’s been better then the joke it used to be and it’s been better than the euro but it’s not been killing it every time like some seem to think  

The Euro criticism has been valid though. It’s really mishandled several NS SS interactions lately, which to be fair was a known weakness but not making excuses it’s been bad and anecdotally it seems more jumpy and prone to tangents in the medium range since the last major resolution upgrade years ago. It does do an impressive job for a global with meso scale features now but maybe it’s now got some of the high resolution CAMs issues that can become problematic with Synoptics at range. Not sure that was really a good trade. Maybe, and just speculation, having a short range euro at high resolution and a longer range lower resolution focused on Synoptics past 72 hours would be better. 

So basically none of them are great. GFS  is probably a “.500 ball club” this winter season so far and Euro is “10 games under .500”. (In baseball terms not football haha)

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