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2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Conflicted here.  Traveling soon and I need a negative test before we depart.
 I’m trying to avoid crowds (as typical, regardless of the ‘Vid) but I do need to be in stores, currently getting my car inspected etc. 

To mask or not...  this blows.  Does it provide even the tiniest advantage in prevention?   
 

most of the people in the shop right now are masked.  

If you have a kn95 or better, sure. That may provide some protection if you happened to come across someone who has it. 

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7 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

That's ultimately what it comes down to. If COVID acts like the common cold then that's fine but if it leads to hospitalizations & deaths then that's a problem.

And COVID will ultimately be endemic and join the other coronaviruses we deal with so sooner or later we'll have to move on.

how long we going to have to wait to determine this? UK seems to be coming down from their peak and don't think there was large uptick is hospitalizations and deaths. It really seems we are heading toward a zero policy.

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13 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Which means the vaccines are effective, because there are minimal hospitalizations (<1%) and no deaths.  Nearly all deaths and majority of hospitalizations from Covid can be attributed to those that are unvaccinated.

What happened to 97% effective at not getting Covid? I mean 74% 

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1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Severe covid.

Um wrong

From cdc.gov

Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

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8 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Conflicted here.  Traveling soon and I need a negative test before we depart.
 I’m trying to avoid crowds (as typical, regardless of the ‘Vid) but I do need to be in stores, currently getting my car inspected etc. 

To mask or not...  this blows.  Does it provide even the tiniest advantage in prevention?   
 

most of the people in the shop right now are masked.  

Just mask up for now. What’s the downside??  Some anti-vaxxer will think you’re a sheep?  Who cares?! Haha

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Just now, Ginx snewx said:

Um wrong

From cdc.gov

Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

Are the laboratory-confirmed tests the same as the real-world ones?

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1 minute ago, Ginx snewx said:

Funny how the reinvections and vaccinated cases are spun.  Perhaps its the frigging PCR tests, ya think? We have been saying this all along and now the CDC is removing emergency use if PCR effective Dec 31st, hmm

The counts for cases and probably hospitalizations have been off all along. There was data from the UK NHS that many of the people hospitalized for COVID actually came in for something totally unrelated and only tested positive later, yet they are called a "COVID hospitalization" in the numbers all the same.

Deaths are probably also a little off, but there may be errors in both directions so it may be a wash. Time will tell.

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8 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Um wrong

From cdc.gov

Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people aged 18 years and older, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

I think Israel said that Pfizer is about 39% effective at preventing Delta infection.

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29 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

I'm just waiting for the waning vax immunity stories of the elderly who were vaccinated first that now risk infection yet again. Maybe less severe,  maybe not,  but we'll be starting all over again.

As far as I've been trying to assess ...

... we still have not yet at a society scope and scale, proven that "humanity" is even done the right thing with this management and 'proxy' over this thing.

Remember early on?  There was a speculation that we would not actually stop this thing, but only extend it's "pandemia" phase.  

In 1918 ..the Spanish Flu broke out and by 18 months ...other than pockets of frets and starts it was by and large a done deal and handed off to the future of Inf A/B ..etc.  

This? is at 18 months and it's teetering on those earlier visions that went something like, "...we're only going to succeed at protracting this thing longer.."   ( the dreamy creamy profit slut lust hope of the "Industrial Media Complex" btw - )

The vaccines came in time - so it was thought.  But now with those experiencing social stigma within their little cultural islands, in aggregate, presenting enough population ballast to keep the target pool large enough, this protraction aspect is kinda being tested still.    

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29 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

how long we going to have to wait to determine this? UK seems to be coming down from their peak and don't think there was large uptick is hospitalizations and deaths. It really seems we are heading toward a zero policy.

Yeah deaths were really low in comparison to cases so the vaccines are working. 

We'll be a little worse off given our lower vaccination rate but I don't see a massive increase in deaths. 

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17 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The counts for cases and probably hospitalizations have been off all along. There was data from the UK NHS that many of the people hospitalized for COVID actually came in for something totally unrelated and only tested positive later, yet they are called a "COVID hospitalization" in the numbers all the same.

Deaths are probably also a little off, but there may be errors in both directions so it may be a wash. Time will tell.

Not correct about the UK.  Many had not tested positive before they were hospitalized because they had not yet been tested.  They came in with Covid symptoms and did test positive after being admitted.

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Just now, PhineasC said:

I think Israel said that Pfizer is about 39% effective at preventing Delta infection.

Conflicting data on the Israeli info.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-delta-variant-and-covid-19-vaccines-what-to-know-11627079604

Quote

After two doses, the Pfizer vaccine was 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from Delta, compared with 36% efficacy after one dose, said the study, which was sponsored by Public Health England. The effectiveness at preventing symptomatic disease after two doses of AstraZeneca’s shot was 67%, compared with 30% after one dose.

A separate, preliminary study, however, found a much lower rate of efficacy against the variant for the Pfizer-BioNTech shots. Data released in late July by the government of Israel, which had one of the world’s fastest and most comprehensive vaccine rollouts, indicated that a two-dose course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 41% effective in preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant. The same Israeli study, based on a small sample size, found that the two-dose Pfizer vaccine is 88% effective at preventing hospitalization and 91% effective at preventing severe Covid-19 caused by the Delta variant.

Sucks to be them though if that's the case.  We Moderna, Still needs peer review.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-provides-clinical-update-neutralizing-activity-its-covid

Quote

The study methodology was previously described in the letter to the editor published in NEJM on April 15, 2021 concerning the variants first identified in the U.K. (Alpha, B.1.1.7) and the Republic of South Africa (Beta, B.1.351) using serum samples from eight participants obtained one week after participants’ second dose of the primary series in the Phase 1 clinical trial of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine. These most recent data include neutralization assays against additional variant strains. This additional analysis showed minimal impact on neutralizing titers against the Alpha and A.23.1 variants relative to those against the ancestral strain (D614G). This analysis also showed a modest reduction in neutralizing titers against the Delta (2.1-fold), Gamma (P.1, 3.2-fold), Kappa (3.3-3.4-fold), and Eta (4.2-fold) variants relative to those against the ancestral strain. Consistent with previous results, a 7.3 or 8.4-fold reduction in neutralizing titers was observed with the additional versions of the Beta variant relative to the ancestral strain. Additionally, an 8.0-fold reduction in neutralizing titers relative to the ancestral strain was observed with A.VOI.V2, the variant first identified in Angola, but currently not designated as a Variant of Concern or Interest.

https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-06-30-moderna-reports-delta-variant-susceptible-its-covid-19-vaccine

Quote

“These new data are encouraging and reinforce our belief that the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine should remain protective against newly detected variants,” said CEO Stéphane Bance

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/06/30/1011684609/moderna-says-studies-show-its-vaccine-is-effective-against-the-delta-variant

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Just now, HimoorWx said:

Not correct about the UK.  Many had not tested positive before they were hospitalized because they had not yet been tested.  They came in with Covid symptoms and did test positive after being admitted.

Have any links?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/26/exclusive-half-covid-hospitalisations-tested-positive-admission/

Quote

The leaked data – covering all NHS trusts in England – show that, as of last Thursday, just 44 per cent of patients classed as being hospitalised with Covid had tested positive by the time they were admitted. 

The majority of cases were not detected until patients underwent standard Covid tests, carried out on everyone admitted to hospital for any reason. 

Overall, 56 per cent of Covid hospitalisations fell into this category, the data, seen by The Telegraph, show. 

Crucially, this group does not distinguish between those admitted because of severe illness, later found to be caused by the virus, and those in hospital for different reasons who might otherwise never have known that they had picked it up.

You seem to say you have data on the bolded.

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4 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Sorry, read it a few days ago online but don't have time to dig back to find the link.  Hoping to go to England in September, so I have been trying to keep up with what is happening.  Fairly high vaccination rates, so hospitalizations and deaths are way down from what they were in the last peak.

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27 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

I don't give a shit about case counts.  Hospitalizations and deaths are it.  

You don't want to kill anyone do you?. I mean I thought if I got the vaccine I wouldn't expose anyone else who was immunocompromised. 74% of 900 were vaccinated, imagine how many times they might have encountered people with comorbitities. 

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2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You don't want to kill anyone do you?. I mean I thought if I got the vaccine I wouldn't expose anyone else who was immunocompromised. 74% of 900 were vaccinated, imagine how many times they might have encountered people with comorbitities. 

This realization seems to be causing a lot of melts for the vaccinated.

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3 minutes ago, HimoorWx said:

Sorry, read it a few days ago online but don't have time to dig back to find the link.  Hoping to go to England in September, so I have been trying to keep up with what is happening.  Fairly high vaccination rates, so hospitalizations and deaths are way down from what they were in the last peak.

The risk over there is very low. I wouldn't worry about a thing other than some crazy snap lockdown. The virus itself shouldn't be a concern.

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3 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You don't want to kill anyone do you?. I mean I thought if I got the vaccine I wouldn't expose anyone else who was immunocompromised. 74% of 900 were vaccinated, imagine how many times they might have encountered people with comorbitities. 

has there been any data yet showing that vax'd people have comparable viral load to non-vax and/or that vax'd can just as easily spread virus as non-vaxed. I thought Fauci said couple months ago that the reason vax'd could start to mingle with other vax'd without masks was because the risk of spread was negligible.

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Just now, Ginx snewx said:

You don't want to kill anyone do you?. I mean I thought if I got the vaccine I wouldn't expose anyone else who was immunocompromised. 74% of 900 were vaccinated, imagine how many times they might have encountered people with comorbitities. 

How do we know if was the vaccinated that caused the spread vs those that were unvaccinated?  For all we know it could have been entirely the unvaccinated that did it.  We know the vaccine drastically reduces the viral load but the Delta variant is the new kid on the block and resides in the nasal region and there may be more viral load there to transmit but far less than those that are unvaccinated.  The risk is not 0% on transmission of the delta variant in a vaccinated person but it's not 100% either.

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