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With a last gasp effort, winter 20-21 refuses to give up the ghost


moneypitmike
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Just now, CoastalWx said:

It's not totally elevation. Because the temps 850-700 get to be like a SWFE...warmer to the south. So maybe elevation matters to a point, but so will latitude. 

Are you saying h85 above 0 won’t allow Kevin at 975 to snow?   Lol

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Just now, dendrite said:

Not gonna matter once it flips. Everyone transitions safely below freezing to accumulate.

Yes. Elevation doesn’t look like a significant factor. It’s who has the hardest and most precip left after the flip.

More than one model is painting out a scooter to northern Plymouth county as a potential max area, which kind of makes sense, further east.

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20 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

LOL, ..that's an easy question -

Anyone wanna win a nobel prize for Science in deterministic weather forecasting ? 

No, but it's like a negative integral, one happening in fluid time... there is a rate of cyclogenic factoring/decay ... and at some point along that curve the structures becoming gradually more ANA ... everything paralleling boundaries.

There's no real way to tell exactly 'when' it becomes critically lost to what location.  

 

Thanks that's what I figured, just checking if I was missing something.

Looking at 850 wind barbs, how cyclonic vs. just parallel to the frontal boundary. And relatedly, how bent back vs. flat are the temp contours.

At least on 0z Euro and 12z NAM, the cyclonic character looks best at 6z-9z and then starts to squash out by 12z.

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42 minutes ago, weathafella said:

Regarding the dearth of rain to snow in late season.....I would argue that late season is when it’s most favored.  Many of our biggest late season snows started as rain.

Some of the discussions in here have me baffled. I mean in recent ( under 5 years) we have had serious rain to snow storms in March, multiple rain to snow Anafrontal accumulating snow storms. If the lift is there it will bomb snow. I also read in an AFD about the roads being too warm to accumulate. Its baffling

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46 minutes ago, dendrite said:

The snow maps seem a little overboard imo. I'm looking in NE MA and it's still rain on the v15 at 39hr with 2m around 40F. Then it's snow at 42hr with 3hr QPF of 0.30-0.40" but a 6hr snow of 3-4". So it's taking that entire 3hr period as 10:1 snow when really it's starting as rain, transitioning, and then falling as snow onto initially warm/wet ground. You have to be more careful with the clowns than usual with the transitioning ptype. It looks impactful for the commute regardless, but I'd definitely shave some inches off of those Pivotal maps in spots.

Thank you for bringing this up .. the clown maps have been driving me crazy the past couple days for this reason haha 

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13 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

I meant more for better accumulations .. or easier 

Temp drops rapidly. Maybe ORH airport briefly accumulates better than lower spots, but to me..the biggest issue is how far north or south does the 850-700 temps get and where is the H7 warm front. Where that briefly pivots and stalls,  will be where the jack is. 

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5 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Some of the discussions in here have me baffled. I mean in recent ( under 5 years) we have had serious rain to snow storms in March, multiple rain to snow Anafrontal accumulating snow storms. If the lift is there it will bomb snow. I also read in an AFD about the roads being too warm to accumulate. Its baffling

Makes you wonder sometimes where some of these supposed pros got their education from? And if they even have any real world experience?  Sad. 

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9 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Temp drops rapidly. Maybe ORH airport briefly accumulates better than lower spots, but to me..the biggest issue is how far north or south does the 850-700 temps get and where is the H7 warm front. Where that briefly pivots and stalls,  will be where the jack is. 

Basically pure deformation at H85 here. Axis of dilatation right through MA.

NAMNE_850_temp_036.png

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7 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

That was the NAM actually. It does collapse it SE...here is 09z.

image.thumb.png.83e732d98871b9ff47d3aec146d27a56.png

 

 

 

Might be when it starts to weaken as it becomes more CAA at 700 vs getting the good convergence east of the low with some WAA and strong fronto like at 6z. Anyways, that's not always the end game (see 3/4/19 haha), but something to watch.  Every model places it a little different. 

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19 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

 

Given that and where the DGZ is, that is congrats nrn MA and SNH IMO.

Yes....EURO, as well.
My point all along. Believe me, if I thought I was porked, I would not hesitate to admit that. Would it surprise me if it did end up like shit here, not at all, but I like the look of guidance at present. Forget the QPF gradient.

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4 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

 

Might be when it starts to weaken as it becomes more CAA at 700 vs getting the good convergence east of the low with some WAA and strong fronto like at 6z. Anyways, that's not always the end game (see 3/4/19 haha), but something to watch.  Every model places it a little different. 

Seems to me the system intensifies at the last moment.

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56 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Some of the discussions in here have me baffled. I mean in recent ( under 5 years) we have had serious rain to snow storms in March, multiple rain to snow Anafrontal accumulating snow storms. If the lift is there it will bomb snow. I also read in an AFD about the roads being too warm to accumulate. Its baffling

The road temp question is always misrepresented and not assessed correctly by many... rates always win-out.  Even last night with glorified snow showers and patchy areas of  steady light snow we had to send out trucks to treat high elevation roads here in Burlington, as solid coating occurred.  The potential for big rates easily out-weighs any road temp concerns...

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Just now, FXWX said:

The road temp question is always misrepresented and not assessed correctly by many... rates always win-out.  Even last night with glorified snow showers and patchy areas of  steady light snow we had to send out trucks to treat high elevation roads here in Burlington, as solid coating occurred.  The potential for big rates easily out-weighs any road temp concerns...

In Methuen they send the trucks out even if there is the slightest risk of snow.......

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4 minutes ago, FXWX said:

The road temp question is always misrepresented and not assessed correctly by many... rates always win-out.  Even last night with glorified snow showers and patchy areas of  steady light snow we had to send out trucks to treat high elevation roads here in Burlington, as solid coating occurred.  The potential for big rates easily out-weighs any road temp concerns...

Yep multiple accidents last night

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  • eekuasepinniW changed the title to With a last gasp effort, winter 20-21 refuses to give up the ghost
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