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January 2021 General Discussions & Observations Thread


Stormlover74
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2 hours ago, bluewave said:

It’s ironic that we may get our first -EPO drop since mid-December as the PNA is turning negative just after the 20th. This can often happen as the ridge pulls back to Aleutians and higher heights extend toward Alaska. So it looks like the PNA drop which the models had originally forecast near the start of February is moving up by 6-10 days.

 

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What do you think this means for February if things continue to shift west? 

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Mins, Maxes, averages.  Interesting stats but...

Max temps here have been averaging a little above normal, min temps warmer than that (this morning being the one exception) and daily averages a few to several degrees above normal (and averaging above freezing every day since Jan 1 except one).  But there is an interesting little side note.  On some typical recent days with a min in the high 20s and max around 40, only about 6 hours per day have been at or above freezing.  Temp drops quickly early evening and has been slow to rise in the mornings.  Not every day, but there's been a lot of that since Jan 1.

Min here this morning was 21 (-6C)

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19 minutes ago, wdrag said:

Think NCEP having or was having a comms problem with the 12z/11 cycle but GGEM rolling and continues minor hopes for all  amounts I84 west part 16th.

There is a message on the PivotalWeather.com site saying NCEP is having data distribution problems.....I also suspect that most of the models will have major problems past day 5 especially adjusting to this pattern change coming up...........

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8 minutes ago, NEG NAO said:

There is a message on the PivotalWeather.com site saying NCEP is having data distribution problems.....I also suspect that most of the models will have major problems past day 5 especially adjusting to this pattern change coming up...........

Thanks much.  

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32 minutes ago, bluewave said:

I guess we’ll look to the weeklies later for some hints. But the PNA has been lingering in one phase for extended periods. It was negative from mid-October to mid-November. Then it if flipped positive from mid-November right into late January. 

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The only thing stopping an all out torch is the -NAO. That look 1/21 and beyond (Aleutian ridge, -PNA, trough dumped into the west) would let the SE ridge go wild, the only thing fighting it is the -NAO, you lose that and we are screwed big time

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1 minute ago, snowman19 said:

The only thing stopping an out out torch is the -NAO. That look 1/21 and beyond (Aleutian ridge, -PNA, trough dumped into the west) would let the SE ridge go wild, the only thing fighting it is the -NAO, you lose that and we are screwed big time

So far, this winter is a lesson on how a favorable AO, NAO and PNA won't overcome a bonkers +EPO and raging PAC jet.  If the EPO is pinching off any supply of arctic air, then nothing else really matters. 

With that said, if we do manage to relax the +EPO some, then we might have a chance to score.  Niña February's tend to be unfriendly to us snow lover's though (save for 2006, of course).  After that, we pin our hopes to wavelength-shortening dice-rolls.

We really need that PAC jet to calm the eff down if we ever want to see long stretches of winter weather around here again.  That thing really has spoiled the past few winters for us.

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52 minutes ago, Eduardo said:

So far, this winter is a lesson on how a favorable AO, NAO and PNA won't overcome a bonkers +EPO and raging PAC jet.  If the EPO is pinching off any supply of arctic air, then nothing else really matters. 

With that said, if we do manage to relax the +EPO some, then we might have a chance to score.  Niña February's tend to be unfriendly to us snow lover's though (save for 2006, of course).  After that, we pin our hopes to wavelength-shortening dice-rolls.

We really need that PAC jet to calm the eff down if we ever want to see long stretches of winter weather around here again.  That thing really has spoiled the past few winters for us.

It’s as if the historic December 2015 +13.3 reset the whole winter climate warmer.

NYC

Dec 15....+13.3

Jan 16....+1.9

Feb 16....+2.4

Dec 16....+0.8

Jan 17....+5.4

Feb 17....+6.3

Dec 17....-2.5

Jan 18.....-0.8

Feb 18....+6.7

Dec 18....+2.6

Jan 19....-0.1

Feb 19....+0.9

Dec 19....+0.8

Jan 20....+6.5

Feb 20....+4.8

Dec 20.....+1.7

Jan 21.....+3.6...so far

 

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9 minutes ago, bluewave said:

It’s as if the historic December 2015 +13.3 reset the whole winter climate warmer.

NYC

Dec 15....+13.3

Jan 16....+1.9

Feb 16....+2.4

Dec 16....+0.8

Jan 17....+5.4

Feb 17....+6.3

Dec 17....-2.5

Jan 18.....-0.8

Feb 18....+6.7

Dec 18....+2.6

Jan 19....-0.1

Feb 19....+0.9

Dec 19....+0.8

Jan 20....+6.5

Feb 20....+4.8

Dec 20.....+1.7

Jan 21.....+3.6...so far

 

Listing all of the post-Dec. 2015 winter month departures like this really drives home how much of an impact the 15–16 super Niño had on our climate.  Dec. '17/Jan. '18 stand out (and including March '18 would color this a bit more, I'd think).  Still, there's no denying that the super Niño shuffled things up.

What caused the cold flip for EPO-driven winters in 13–14 and 14–15?  I've heard conflicting arguments about the role of the NE PAC "blob" of warm water.  Examining this might provide us with hints of what to look for if we ever want to see cold winters again.

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16 minutes ago, Allsnow said:

Ugly look to start February If that’s true. CFS has the same theme then drops the hammer for cold end of February lol

I wonder if the ridge bridge over the top of the -PNA trough today is a result of the EPS seeing continuing influence from the SSW? This raises the question of whether the EPS will correct from what it’s showing now in early February. We really need a strong -EPO -AO connection to counteract the influence of the -PNA.

 

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3 minutes ago, bluewave said:

I wonder if the ridge bridge over the top of the -PNA trough today is a result of the EPS seeing continuing influence from the SSW? This raises the question of whether the EPS will correct from what is is showing now in early February. We really need a strong -EPO -AO connection to counteract the influence of the -PNA.

 

Yeah in those charts the effects of the ssw are dripping down into trop. It could’ve been why the big change today 

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