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E PA/NJ/DE Winter 2020/2021 OBS Thread


Rtd208
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6 hours ago, Snowcane21 said:

Based on today’s trends we’ve moved from needle to basically a lay up lol. The cmc jumped about 300 miles west and the gfs made huge leaps towards the euro. All signals point to a major storm riding up the coast starting Saturday. Actually it has the risk of moving too far west on us. 

ICON tracks it West. Snow to mix. I can certainly see a scenario like this playing out...classic thump to mix or rain.  Sets us up our arctic push and 50/50 for the period later next week that I am interested in. Dont see this weekend as a clean snow hit attm. Suppose it could trend tho. Busy tracking times!

icon_mslp_pcpn_frzn_neus_38.png

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29 minutes ago, hazwoper said:

18Z GFS still south, but has ticked north.  Right where we want it at this point.

ICON has trended towards a Hybrid Miller A/B....has characteristics of both with slp coming out of Plains moving along the South then up into the Tennessee Valley before transferring off the Carolina Coast.

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29 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

ICON has trended towards a Hybrid Miller A/B....has characteristics of both with slp coming out of Plains moving along the South then up into the Tennessee Valley before transferring off the Carolina Coast.

Then that is straight up Miller B, not looking at the map but if there is no GOM interaction it's all Miller B. Development off the Carolina coast is a positive compared to what we just went through. 

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1 minute ago, Violentweatherfan said:

Then that is straight up Miller B, not looking at the map but if there is no GOM interaction it's all Miller B. Development off the Carolina coast is a positive compared to what we just went through. 

Closer to inside the outer banks at the surface actually. Farthest S lat it gets is Montgomery, AL before headed NE towards the Tenn Valley. So no real GOM interaction as you noted. Pure Miller B it is? Matches the EPS mean in that regard which is Miller B as well. We don't get coast hugging Miller As often at all. They mostly just slide off the Carolina coast without the phase to draw them N it seems.

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46 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Closer to inside the outer banks at the surface actually. Farthest S lat it gets is Montgomery, AL before headed NE towards the Tenn Valley. So no real GOM interaction as you noted. Pure Miller B it is? Matches the EPS mean in that regard which is Miller B as well. We don't get coast hugging Miller As often at all. They mostly just slide off the Carolina coast without the phase to draw them N it seems.

I read from a site that Boxing Day storm 2010 was a Miller A. Not quite sure of it's accuracy though, because I did see portions of a video from YT that mention the surface low never really went in the GOM and just developed off the coast. I always assumed that there needed to be GOM interaction. 

Miller B storms are easy peasy to recognize because the primary low/clipper travels through Midwest and eventually dies and redevelops off the coast. 

If you find the time go and take a look at some of the surface maps from January 96 and check out the isobars/wind field. Just amazing. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Violentweatherfan said:

I read from a site that Boxing Day storm 2010 was a Miller A. Not quite sure of it's accuracy though, because I did see portions of a video from YT that mention the surface low never really went in the GOM and just developed off the coast. I always assumed that there needed to be GOM interaction. 

Miller B storms are easy peasy to recognize because the primary low/clipper travels through Midwest and eventually dies and redevelops off the coast. 

If you find the time go and take a look at some of the surface maps from January 96 and check out the isobars/wind field. Just amazing. 

 

 

96 wasn't a pure Miller A then, correct? From my reading the 'A' has more to do with the storm tracking far deep South (haven't found mention of a direct GOM connection) and emerging off the Carolina Coast without redevelopment of slp. The Miller B research on the weatherworksinc site says the defining characteristic is a surface low in the Midwest , OV, Tenn Valley that transfers/redevelops off the Mid Atl coast.

96 had the GOM interaction which meets A criteria but ALSO got into the Tenn Valley before redeveloping off the Mid Atl Coast which meets Miller B criteria. I believe contrary to several folks that 96 was in fact a hybrid.

20210202_195129.jpg

20210202_195143.jpg

Interestingly enough, the 18z ICON has some similarities to the slp development of the 96 storm, tho not even close at h5 so no I am not comparing. Just trying to determine Miller status. It is a very interesting topic 

icon_z500_mslp_eus_38.png

icon_z500_mslp_eus_39.png

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Out of curiosity did anyone do well in any bands during the afternoon / evening or were those fools gold on radar? The band over the delmarva looks interesting. I am shocked that the low still spins off the coast with a broad circulation far inland.

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27 minutes ago, Violentweatherfan said:

TY so much for that link. I really enjoy reading this type of material directly from the scientist/meteorologist responsible for these classifications and studies.

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7 minutes ago, bpjones595 said:


I think we could “settle” for that


.

Without hp holding with confluence in place that will probably be a thump to mix scenario at best. The cold antecedent airmass is stale at that point, so unless we get phasing or start seeing better confluence to help nose that HP over across the GL and funnel it into the region, we are dealing with a marginal airmass by that time. Of course this system also is progged to usher in arctic air behind it. So if phasing occurs and is timed properly, maybe we get a euro look from 0z and 12z yesterday.  Guess that is still possible but again the look right now seems to favor a quick moving mix or thump to mix IF the ull looks on the icon and euro are to be believed.

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11 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Not yet

Big wild swing by the Euro for some reason.

Mt holly wants nothing to do with it:

 

Deterministic guidance over the past 24 hours has taken an
eastern shift in a potential surface low track however there`s
still quite a bit of spread in the ensemble guidance. I suspect
over the next couple of days we`ll see this trend continue as
the 250mb jet axis acts as a wall to push the developing low
pressure system off shore. However its certainly within the
ensemble envelope that we`ll see the low pressure system sneak
back inside and towards the coast. So its worth watching for
changes but likely the storm will have little impact over the
region other than to bring rather cold temperatures to the
region. Temps early next week will be running on the order of 10
degrees below normal with highs in the 20s and lows in the
teens.
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13 hours ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

96 wasn't a pure Miller A then, correct? From my reading the 'A' has more to do with the storm tracking far deep South (haven't found mention of a direct GOM connection) and emerging off the Carolina Coast without redevelopment of slp. The Miller B research on the weatherworksinc site says the defining characteristic is a surface low in the Midwest , OV, Tenn Valley that transfers/redevelops off the Mid Atl coast.

96 had the GOM interaction which meets A criteria but ALSO got into the Tenn Valley before redeveloping off the Mid Atl Coast which meets Miller B criteria. I believe contrary to several folks that 96 was in fact a hybrid.

20210202_195129.jpg

20210202_195143.jpg

Interestingly enough, the 18z ICON has some similarities to the slp development of the 96 storm, tho not even close at h5 so no I am not comparing. Just trying to determine Miller status. It is a very interesting topic 

 

It was a Champion of Miller A storms and definitely tapped into the Gulf 

Blizzard_of_1996_satellite.png

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