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madwx

Fall/Winter 2020/21 Banter Thread

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8 minutes ago, Chicago Storm said:

@A-L-E-K should give us some insight on his feelings regarding grass.

lol, american lawn culture is legit cancer and terrible but i have no major issues with golf courses that aren't in the desert

 
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Hmmm...many people seem to be missing the point.  Yes, relative to climo, 2013-14 was a spectacular winter.  But for those of us who love winter, climo doesn't matter.  I'm talking about an "absolute level" standard of what winter should be like.

I checked Dallas's records...and their best winter is probably 1977-78.  17.6" of snow, and an average DJF temp of 39.3F (about 9F colder than the 1981-2010 normal).  But for a winter lover, that's a horrible winter.  That's all I'm saying.  I've said very clearly that 2013-14 was good.  But most winters should be 50+", with frozen lakes and ponds, and long periods of 6"+ snow cover.  It's not that exceptional; just what winter should be. 

Even in an absolute sense, 1978-79 was exceptional.  90+" of snow in much of NE IL (105.1" in Antioch per NOWData), with consistent snow cover in all of DJF.  Antioch actually had 116 consecutive days with snow cover, from 11/27/1978 to 3/22/1979...with a max depth of 39" on 1/16/1979. 

It works the other way too.  For Bo and Will's locations, every winter is great, even if they occasionally have some clunkers relative to climo.

Not expecting the level of cold of northern MN, or the prolific snow of the UP snow belts.  Just a happy medium in between, which can be counted on in most/all years.

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4 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

Hmmm...many people seem to be missing the point.  Yes, relative to climo, 2013-14 was a spectacular winter.  But for those of us who love winter, climo doesn't matter.  I'm talking about an "absolute level" standard of what winter should be like.

I checked Dallas's records...and their best winter is probably 1977-78.  17.6" of snow, and an average DJF temp of 39.3F (about 9F colder than the 1981-2010 normal).  But for a winter lover, that's a horrible winter.  That's all I'm saying.  I've said very clearly that 2013-14 was good.  But most winters should be 50+", with frozen lakes and ponds, and long periods of 6"+ snow cover.  It's not that exceptional; just what winter should be. 

Even in an absolute sense, 1978-79 was exceptional.  90+" of snow in much of NE IL (105.1" in Antioch per NOWData), with consistent snow cover in all of DJF.  Antioch actually had 116 consecutive days with snow cover, from 11/27/1978 to 3/22/1979...with a max depth of 39" on 1/16/1979. 

It works the other way too.  For Bo and Will's locations, every winter is great, even if they occasionally have some clunkers relative to climo.

Not expecting the level of cold of northern MN, or the prolific snow of the UP snow belts.  Just a happy medium in between, which can be counted on in most/all years.

you need to seek help.

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10 minutes ago, A-L-E-K said:

lol, american lawn culture is legit cancer and terrible but i have no major issues with golf courses that aren't in the desert

 
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:thumbsup: My wife has been working for 10 years to convince local municipalities of this, without much success.  The environmental impacts of this culture are beyond belief.  Maybe it was fine in the 1950s, but things can't just stay the same forever, once the impacts are known.  Kind of like smoking.

Hopefully we as a society will begin embracing native habitats, and trying to restore them.  The loss of biodiversity is really a tragedy, but most people don't think about it.  As with anything, it will take time.  It's an example of an environmental problem where the good of the community/planet/ecosystem needs to outweigh individual freedom.

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Thanks for being a bully...much appreciated.

you keep cranking out unrealistic expectations and this is a banter thread, what did you expect.


.

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1 minute ago, madwx said:

Starting a gofundme to move Beavis to Ironwood Michigan 

that won't cut it.

122519_North_Pole.jpg

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41 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

...I checked Dallas's records...and their best winter is probably 1977-78.  17.6" of snow, and an average DJF temp of 39.3F (about 9F colder than the 1981-2010 normal)...

Hmmm, it certainly seem as though they don't make winters like 1977-1978 any more, where places like Dallas, Chicago *AND* Boston all have a stellar season. 

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30 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

:thumbsup: My wife has been working for 10 years to convince local municipalities of this, without much success.  The environmental impacts of this culture are beyond belief.  Maybe it was fine in the 1950s, but things can't just stay the same forever, once the impacts are known.  Kind of like smoking.

Hopefully we as a society will begin embracing native habitats, and trying to restore them.  The loss of biodiversity is really a tragedy, but most people don't think about it.  As with anything, it will take time.  It's an example of an environmental problem where the good of the community/planet/ecosystem needs to outweigh individual freedom.

she sounds like a wonderful person and I'm not surprised, people are idiots

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@beavis1729 It's one thing to wish you could get the perfect winter, but to rant every winter how that's the way it should be when that's just not possible wears thin on people. If your life circumstances don't allow you to move to your ideal winter climo, idk what it accomplishes to rail on a climo that never existed here and never will, other than prompting other members to troll your rants.

 

Another thing to consider is that we have pretty easy access to places that get much more snow and continuous snow cover than here. Plus, 35-40" in an average winter for a metro area of this size is a decent winter climo. Just think of the winter/snow lovers who have to relocate due to their job to somewhere in the south where it rarely snows. I think some perspective is needed if you don't want people to snark at you.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

 I agree. I have always told people we will have a harsh winters again but we will never have another 2013-14. It was the 3rd coldest December to March on record at Detroit, but in addition to being the snowiest Winter on record the snow depth blew all of the records away. We had 46 days with more than 10" of snow on the ground. The next Winter, 2014-15, we had 32 days with more than 10" of snow on the ground. Before those 2 winters the single Winter record was 18 days.

The *ONLY drawback to 2013-2014 was that Detroit still failed to get a big dog snowstorm, although it did finally happen in February 2015.

That said, another highlight to the 2013-2014 winter was the surprise TSSN to freezing rain/ice event on 2/20/14 that was originally supposed to be a cold rain (temps maxed out at 35*F). It only further solidified the already deep snowpack. 

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3 hours ago, Chicago WX said:

Dec-Mar 2013-14 is the coldest on record for Chicago. In the global warming era to boot. The 82.0" measured is the 3rd highest in history. Really it was the 2nd highest, due to measuring snafus at ORD. Calling the 13-14 winter "decent" is the definition of insanity. Won't see another winter like that around here, for a very long time. 

In 2012, I switched my furnace from fuel oil to propane. Winter of 13-14 paid for the entire replacement in saved fuel costs.

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3 hours ago, Chicago WX said:

Dec-Mar 2013-14 is the coldest on record for Chicago. In the global warming era to boot. The 82.0" measured is the 3rd highest in history. Really it was the 2nd highest, due to measuring snafus at ORD. Calling the 13-14 winter "decent" is the definition of insanity. Won't see another winter like that around here, for a very long time. 

In 2012, I switched my furnace from fuel oil to propane. Winter of 13-14 paid for the entire replacement in saved fuel costs.

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1 hour ago, A-L-E-K said:

lol, american lawn culture is legit cancer and terrible but i have no major issues with golf courses that aren't in the desert

 
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I do love desert golf. Spring break in Myrtle Beach is always iffy weatherwise for golf. Tuscon usually sunny and warm.

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3 hours ago, Chicago WX said:

Dec-Mar 2013-14 is the coldest on record for Chicago. In the global warming era to boot. The 82.0" measured is the 3rd highest in history. Really it was the 2nd highest, due to measuring snafus at ORD. Calling the 13-14 winter "decent" is the definition of insanity. Won't see another winter like that around here, for a very long time. 

In 2012, I switched my furnace from fuel oil to propane. Winter of 13-14 paid for the entire replacement in saved fuel costs.

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4 minutes ago, Cary67 said:

I do love desert golf. Spring break in Myrtle Beach is always iffy weatherwise for golf. Tuscon usually sunny and warm.

you're from mchenry county, only a matter of time before you head out to Arizona to die like the rest, it's destiny

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1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

Hmmm...many people seem to be missing the point.  Yes, relative to climo, 2013-14 was a spectacular winter.  But for those of us who love winter, climo doesn't matter.  I'm talking about an "absolute level" standard of what winter should be like.

I checked Dallas's records...and their best winter is probably 1977-78.  17.6" of snow, and an average DJF temp of 39.3F (about 9F colder than the 1981-2010 normal).  But for a winter lover, that's a horrible winter.  That's all I'm saying.  I've said very clearly that 2013-14 was good.  But most winters should be 50+", with frozen lakes and ponds, and long periods of 6"+ snow cover.  It's not that exceptional; just what winter should be. 

Even in an absolute sense, 1978-79 was exceptional.  90+" of snow in much of NE IL (105.1" in Antioch per NOWData), with consistent snow cover in all of DJF.  Antioch actually had 116 consecutive days with snow cover, from 11/27/1978 to 3/22/1979...with a max depth of 39" on 1/16/1979. 

It works the other way too.  For Bo and Will's locations, every winter is great, even if they occasionally have some clunkers relative to climo.

Not expecting the level of cold of northern MN, or the prolific snow of the UP snow belts.  Just a happy medium in between, which can be counted on in most/all years.

 

Snow cover baby, snow cover!

 

1979-01-15 Snow Depth.PNG

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1 hour ago, RCNYILWX said:

@beavis1729 It's one thing to wish you could get the perfect winter, but to rant every winter how that's the way it should be when that's just not possible wears thin on people. If your life circumstances don't allow you to move to your ideal winter climo, idk what it accomplishes to rail on a climo that never existed here and never will, other than prompting other members to troll your rants.

 

Another thing to consider is that we have pretty easy access to places that get much more snow and continuous snow cover than here. Plus, 35-40" in an average winter for a metro area of this size is a decent winter climo. Just think of the winter/snow lovers who have to relocate due to their job to somewhere in the south where it rarely snows. I think some perspective is needed if you don't want people to snark at you.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate your comments...I just figure that all snow lovers would get frustrated by our climo...and people could at least agree on that, with so much anger and discord in the world right now.  You and others seem to deal with our climo more maturely than I do.  I have a met degree, so I understand climo and the science behind meteorology...but what always drove me to pursue that path was a love of winter.  So, of course much of what I say on this forum doesn't make logical sense.  I'm in denial about winters here...and just can't get past it.

I'm not trolling.  What I'm trying to accomplish is to have others share in my frustration...and maybe even to share in nostalgia to talk about the great patterns of the past, and what we should be looking for to make it happen again.  That's why the NE forum is fun.  Even with some challenging personalities, there is robust discussion and remembrance of historical storms...and it's filled with hope and weenies.  That's a good thing...an escape from the modern world.

It's difficult enough being on an island in the world as a snow lover...and then to be on an island even on a snow-loving forum like this is even stranger.  When first joining this forum 10 years ago, I figured most people would be like me...but that's not what happened.

Snow & arctic cold lovers don't fit into the modern world, especially the suburban/urban Chicago metro area. This current winter, especially with Covid, is the icing on the cake.  The lack of snowfall is bad enough...but there just hasn't been any cold all winter.  Where did it go?  It just doesn't feel right.  Even if you use climo as the benchmark...ORD's normal low is around 15, and imby it's probably around 13.  We've had two days all season with a low temp colder than this.

Doesn't everyone on here not just understand the frustration...but feel it too?

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1 hour ago, A-L-E-K said:

you're from mchenry county, only a matter of time before you head out to Arizona to die like the rest, it's destiny

It always choices. Slow death via dehydration in the desert or quicker ones like carjacking 40 miles SE 

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34 minutes ago, beavis1729 said:

Appreciate your comments...I just figure that all snow lovers would get frustrated by our climo...and people could at least agree on that, with so much anger and discord in the world right now.  You and others seem to deal with our climo more maturely than I do.  I have a met degree, so I understand climo and the science behind meteorology...but what always drove me to pursue that path was a love of winter.  So, of course much of what I say on this forum doesn't make logical sense.  I'm in denial about winters here...and just can't get past it.

I'm not trolling.  What I'm trying to accomplish is to have others share in my frustration...and maybe even to share in nostalgia to talk about the great patterns of the past, and what we should be looking for to make it happen again.  That's why the NE forum is fun.  Even with some challenging personalities, there is robust discussion and remembrance of historical storms...and it's filled with hope and weenies.  That's a good thing...an escape from the modern world.

It's difficult enough being on an island in the world as a snow lover...and then to be on an island even on a snow-loving forum like this is even stranger.  When first joining this forum 10 years ago, I figured most people would be like me...but that's not what happened.

Snow & arctic cold lovers don't fit into the modern world, especially the suburban/urban Chicago metro area. This current winter, especially with Covid, is the icing on the cake.  The lack of snowfall is bad enough...but there just hasn't been any cold all winter.  Where did it go?  It just doesn't feel right.  Even if you use climo as the benchmark...ORD's normal low is around 15, and imby it's probably around 13.  We've had two days all season with a low temp colder than this.

Doesn't everyone on here not just understand the frustration...but feel it too?

I understand and feel it. I won't bash you. 

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1 hour ago, Cary67 said:

It always choices. Slow death via dehydration in the desert or quicker ones like carjacking 40 miles SE 

Never forget the thousands of white exurbanites that are killed every year in Chicago due to carjackings gone wrong.

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3 hours ago, Powerball said:

The *ONLY drawback to 2013-2014 was that Detroit still failed to get a big dog snowstorm, although it did finally happen in February 2015.

That said, another highlight to the 2013-2014 winter was the surprise TSSN to freezing rain/ice event on 2/20/14 that was originally supposed to be a cold rain (temps maxed out at 35*F). It only further solidified the already deep snowpack. 

That is true. 2014 had two 10"+ storms in a week but no individual big dog. Give me that winter every year.

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3 hours ago, RCNYILWX said:

@beavis1729 It's one thing to wish you could get the perfect winter, but to rant every winter how that's the way it should be when that's just not possible wears thin on people. If your life circumstances don't allow you to move to your ideal winter climo, idk what it accomplishes to rail on a climo that never existed here and never will, other than prompting other members to troll your rants.

 

Another thing to consider is that we have pretty easy access to places that get much more snow and continuous snow cover than here. Plus, 35-40" in an average winter for a metro area of this size is a decent winter climo. Just think of the winter/snow lovers who have to relocate due to their job to somewhere in the south where it rarely snows. I think some perspective is needed if you don't want people to snark at you.

 

 

 

 

This is a good post. I love winter and I love snow. I always have and I always will. I also understand how weather works and understand that our winter climo is actually better than a ton of places. I am shocked that with a met degree beavis has such an unrealistic expectations. I have measured snow since 1995 and have taken an annual winter trip North since 2007. I get frustrated when we have crappy winters just like any other snow lover. BUT I don't go into a winter with an expectation that we will get feet of snow November 1st and Arctic cold and then meltdown when it doesn't happen. 

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Climo means you crank out some bad winters too. This just might be one if things don't end up as snowy as the mid to long term looks.

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18 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Climo means you crank out some bad winters too. This just might be one if things don't end up as snowy as the mid to long term looks.

The mid/longer range looks better for the western parts of the sub than the east that's for sure.

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Though I specialize in Chicago futility, I do other areas too.  

Indianapolis is currently sitting at 5.3" so far, which is less than half of average to date.  But the least snowy winter on record was just 5.5" in 1918-19, so that record will not be broken.

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Lucky Toronto got a hot start from Mid November to just after Christmas. This winter won't go down in the history books for no snow, but some individual months like January might. 

All this hype about big time cold and big time storms......Keeps getting punted further and further. 

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