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I sort of agree with Jonger. We should not live in fear. Personally I've had 5 friends die in the last 2 years from absolutely random causes under the age of 50. Driving is one of the most dangerous aspects of life. Should we all stay at home and not drive anymore? It's really not needed anymore. We can all work from home, teach from home, order from home. Why don't we all stay home to reduce possible deaths? We could reduce more deaths from reducing the fatality in traffic accidents then we could with Covid.

  • Heart disease: 647,457
  • Cancer: 599,108
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
  • Diabetes: 83,564
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

marcusaurelius1.jpg

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We should have targeted the high risk population (60+) with delivered groceries, a monthly income, and help from their local governments for anything that may need while we develop a vaccine. The rest of us should be practicing personal social distancing and the other protocols in place to help prevent spread to the less at risk population. We may never get a successful vaccine, so we simply cannot shut down forever.

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14 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Good but sobering story.  I know there are some issues with false negatives on tests and what not, but a case where somebody is sick, then tests negative/feels better for a long time and then gets sick again is hard to explain as anything other than getting reinfected with covid.

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31 minutes ago, purduewx80 said:

this explains a lot about your position on the virus and economy. 

Ending all virus protections would hurt my business. I'm actually taking a position that would ultimately hurt my business in the short term. I'm more worried about the day those $600 checks stop coming in for everyone else. And I want them stopped.

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51 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I sort of agree with Jonger. We should not live in fear. Personally I've had 5 friends die in the last 2 years from absolutely random causes under the age of 50. Driving is one of the most dangerous aspects of life. Should we all stay at home and not drive anymore? It's really not needed anymore. We can all work from home, teach from home, order from home. Why don't we all stay home to reduce possible deaths? We could reduce more deaths from reducing the fatality in traffic accidents then we could with Covid.

  • Heart disease: 647,457
  • Cancer: 599,108
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
  • Diabetes: 83,564
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

 

Reminds me of this:

 

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I think a lot of people don’t understand how bad it could potentially get if no precautions are taken and hospitals start getting overwhelmed. We’ve avoided that for the most part so far, but if current trends hold it could be an issue soon in states like TX/FL/AZ/CA, etc. In that case you’d be having people die who would certainly not have died if they were able to receive proper care, and a lot of people seem to fail to realize that or think it just won’t happen because it hasn’t yet 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I sort of agree with Jonger. We should not live in fear. Personally I've had 5 friends die in the last 2 years from absolutely random causes under the age of 50. Driving is one of the most dangerous aspects of life. Should we all stay at home and not drive anymore? It's really not needed anymore. We can all work from home, teach from home, order from home. Why don't we all stay home to reduce possible deaths? We could reduce more deaths from reducing the fatality in traffic accidents then we could with Covid.

  • Heart disease: 647,457
  • Cancer: 599,108
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
  • Diabetes: 83,564
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

marcusaurelius1.jpg

This is per year, right? In just a few months this virus has already taken more of a human toll than most of what you listed above does in a single YEAR.

 This is not "just the flu" or "just like any other dangerous thing". It is clearly more than that.

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1 hour ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I sort of agree with Jonger. We should not live in fear. Personally I've had 5 friends die in the last 2 years from absolutely random causes under the age of 50. Driving is one of the most dangerous aspects of life. Should we all stay at home and not drive anymore? It's really not needed anymore. We can all work from home, teach from home, order from home. Why don't we all stay home to reduce possible deaths? We could reduce more deaths from reducing the fatality in traffic accidents then we could with Covid.

  • Heart disease: 647,457
  • Cancer: 599,108
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
  • Diabetes: 83,564
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

marcusaurelius1.jpg

Okay so this is already around alzheimers with immense restrictions on things and only after 4 months. So let's be real here. This is incredibly dangerous and it is foolhardy to day otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, WxMatt21 said:

Also, callous remarks like "it's just a few kids" or "it's just obese old people" are just gross. The indifference toward human life is appalling.

 

The person that here saying it is the epitome of appalling.

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12 minutes ago, WxMatt21 said:

Also, callous remarks like "it's just a few kids" or "it's just obese old people" are just gross. The indifference toward human life is appalling.

 

Nobody wants any deaths, but at some point we will have to choose between forcing quarantine or self-quarantine. I know it makes me sounds like a fat-cat capitalist, but how much suffering will take place if we destroy our entire way of life and plunge our society into extreme poverty? At some point that question needs an answer. It's possible that no matter what we do, this won't go away. We're now seeing flare ups in countries that had it under control previously.

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31 minutes ago, WxMatt21 said:

This is per year, right? In just a few months this virus has already taken more of a human toll than most of what you listed above does in a single YEAR.

 This is not "just the flu" or "just like any other dangerous thing". It is clearly more than that.

I’d much rather get the virus then lose my house. Unless the government wants to pay me quite a bit of money to stay home, I’m going to go about my life. I refuse to live in fear. If people are scared, stay home. Each person should have an individual choice. Of course I’ll also do what I can to social distance when I’m out and about. 

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4 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I’d much rather get the virus then lose my house. Unless the government wants to pay me quite a bit of money to stay home, I’m going to go about my life. I refuse to live in fear. If people are scared, stay home. Each person should have an individual choice. Of course I’ll also do what I can to social distance when I’m out and about. 

People can't just stay home. How many in this country are paycheck to paycheck? And that extra 600 a week is about to end so you are telling people to stay home and go broke or risk their lives and go to work. Realize what that sounds like.

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3 minutes ago, Stebo said:

People can't just stay home. How many in this country are paycheck to paycheck? And that extra 600 a week is about to end so you are telling people to stay home and go broke or risk their lives and go to work. Realize what that sounds like.

You contradict yourself. You want people to stay home and prevent the spread, but also go to work and be in contact with people? 

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Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

You contradict yourself. You want people to stay home and prevent the spread, but also go to work and be in contact with people? 

No I don't want people to go to work and spread it. That is Jon that does. If it esd up to me I'd shut everything down for a month.

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The bars are tough to deal with.  I think it was the governor of Texas (or maybe someone else) who said they just aren't made for a pandemic.  Perfect environment and circumstances to spread a virus.    

If we had near universal mask usage (especially in areas where cases are high) and people stopped these large gatherings, whether it be bars, birthday parties, grad parties, etc. it would go a long way to getting the cases down.   

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Just now, Hoosier said:

The bars are tough to deal with.  I think it was the governor of Texas (or maybe someone else) who said they just aren't made for a pandemic.  Perfect environment and circumstances to spread a virus.    

If we had near universal mask usage (especially in areas where cases are high) and people stopped these large gatherings, whether it be bars, birthday parties, grad parties, etc. it would go a long way to getting the cases down.   

Bars breed carelessness. How many drunks want cover their faces and listen to authority in general. 

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They say 20% of small businesses go out of business every year.  So 2% of small businesses being "permanently closed" seems like what typically happens anyway.

Of course, you could have all businesses fully open but have them be fully liable if there are outbreaks at their location.  But I guarantee you no business would want to open if they were held liable for outbreaks.  They want government to shield them from risk

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2 hours ago, Stebo said:

People can't just stay home. How many in this country are paycheck to paycheck? And that extra 600 a week is about to end so you are telling people to stay home and go broke or risk their lives and go to work. Realize what that sounds like.

Let's just quadruple our debt so that obese 85 year old's get another few weeks at life.

We can all work for Amazon and Walmart when this is all over.

You'll be an excellent door greeter in our new economy.

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1 hour ago, Inverted_Trough said:

They say 20% of small businesses go out of business every year.  So 2% of small businesses being "permanently closed" seems like what typically happens anyway.

Of course, you could have all businesses fully open but have them be fully liable if there are outbreaks at their location.  But I guarantee you no business would want to open if they were held liable for outbreaks.  They want government to shield them from risk

20% of businesses go out in their first year. We're going to blow past that at this rate.

Here's the thing, that $600 per week and PPP is giving you a false sense of where we are right now. Quite a few people (a sh-t ton) have MORE money staying home right now, so every open business has a larger pool of customers to sell to. That's going to end and many of those businesses that gave those people eligibility for the unemployment won't be there. The real pain hasn't even started yet.

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20 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Let's just quadruple our debt so that obese 85 year old's get another few weeks at life.

We can all work for Amazon and Walmart when this is all over.

You'll be an excellent door greeter in our new economy.

There have been thousands (many thousands) of deaths under age 65 since this began.  Your own chart posted on the previous page shows it.  You are minimizing it by acting like it's all people in their 80s who are dying.  

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Shocked to see this.... I feel like one lucky SOB now. Apparently I'm in that 0.4% at the bottom. We're killing it. There really aren't many small business owners in retail food these days, that has to be the explanation for it.

106488266-1586966890476202001415_impact_on_small_business_revenue_update_final.png?v=1586966920&w=630&h=354

pnl.thumb.png.64fad2404b4bf134ac24ab97b78cc106.png

 

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9 hours ago, Jonger said:

Previously, they were dying. I'd say the difference between dead and not dead is a sign that either doctors are better at treating it or the virus isn't as strong.

I'd rather not plunge the country into a 2nd depression over this. That's just my opinion.

We weren’t in a depression. 
 

deaths trail cases.  This has been fact all along. 

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