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May 2019 Discussion


Torch Tiger
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Just saw on the news regarding Everest, that they are not screening the applicants for the permits very well lately, and many climbers that are there, shouldn’t be, is what some officials are now saying.  And they also said that the guiding operations in some cases are also sub par lately for a mountain of that Magnitude.   And this is exactly what I was thinking was happening.

It’s obvious when there are that many folks there..that all these people aren’t experienced enough, or strong enough to make that type of climb.   

It’s become a big money maker...and they aren’t screening very well. And they’re issuing far too many permits also.  Big changes look to be coming for next year....

 

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Just saw on the news regarding Everest, that they are not screening the applicants for the permits very well lately, and many climbers that are there, shouldn’t be, is what some officials are now saying.  And they also said that the guiding operations in some cases are also sub par lately for a mountain of that Magnitude.   And this is exactly what I was thinking was happening.
It’s obvious when there are that many folks there..that all these people aren’t experienced enough, or strong enough to make that type of climb.   
It’s become a big money maker...and they aren’t screening very well. And they’re issuing far too many permits also.  Big changes look to be coming for next year....
 
It looks like a line at Disney world. Absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible

.

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Man… I've been on 95 on the west side of the city where it elevates there and overlooks Newark industrial park many times I can say that must've been an incredible sight with that supercell coming in… Oh wait it's dark ha ha

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5 hours ago, WinterWolf said:

Just saw on the news regarding Everest, that they are not screening the applicants for the permits very well lately, and many climbers that are there, shouldn’t be, is what some officials are now saying.  And they also said that the guiding operations in some cases are also sub par lately for a mountain of that Magnitude.   And this is exactly what I was thinking was happening.

It’s obvious when there are that many folks there..that all these people aren’t experienced enough, or strong enough to make that type of climb.   

It’s become a big money maker...and they aren’t screening very well. And they’re issuing far too many permits also.  Big changes look to be coming for next year....

 

It's overcrowding on the 4 days of good weather they get.  I really think the narrative of people who shouldn't be there is over-blown...unless we take the stance no one should be there.

I read like 6 of the 11 that died have scaled the highest peak on all 7 continents (albeit didn't make it down from the 7th).

That's normally what goes on up there...it's often the last of the big 7.  That is a huge climbing goal that thousands have accomplished.  I'm no expert but it's hard to say if you've gone up the other 6 highest peaks in the world that you have no business being up there.  I mean if you can survive Denali, Elbrus, many of them hit Mount Blanc, Kilimanjaro, etc you aren't some person who just decides on a whim to go do that.  

Its purely a lack of planning though due to the poor weather they've had...only 3-4 days this year to Summit and that's what happened.  All of those people would've been fine if they didn't have the traffic up there.  

But these types of reactions always happen in the more extreme sports world...like a rash of skydiving deaths or avalanche deaths or something.  I always have an appreciation for folks that have such a passion for something that brings them great joy.  So many people go through life without finding that activity that brings them true joy.  Hiking mountains and experiencing different cultures seems like it would be a great way to challenge yourself.

Better to die doing something you loved than dying on the Mass Pike because some drunk guy coming home from happy hour or a Xanax'd suburban mom was texting her kids and couldn't stay in her lane.  

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A proposal made is for a qualifying system.  How many of those experienced people that died were held up by crowding from less accomplished types?  I don't know but I speculate it contributed.  That and that they seem fixated on bagging the trophy to the extent they discarded some basic principles, not the least of which is the one that at time checks you turn back if you haven't hit your markers.  Would suck if they did but got fatally delayed trying to get back down because too many people.

I saw it expressed as "no self reliance, no decision making, no discovery" which I think put it well.  If it's worth being able to say you walked to the top of Mount Everest under those conditions then fine.  Me, I respect my brother's daughter who climbed all over New Zealand and the Tetons with her boyfriend way more.  No labels or titles, all experiences.

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44 minutes ago, Tom12309 said:

A proposal made is for a qualifying system.  How many of those experienced people that died were held up by crowding from less accomplished types?  I don't know but I speculate it contributed.  That and that they seem fixated on bagging the trophy to the extent they discarded some basic principles, not the least of which is the one that at time checks you turn back if you haven't hit your markers.  Would suck if they did but got fatally delayed trying to get back down because too many people.

I saw it expressed as "no self reliance, no decision making, no discovery" which I think put it well.  If it's worth being able to say you walked to the top of Mount Everest under those conditions then fine.  Me, I respect my brother's daughter who climbed all over New Zealand and the Tetons with her boyfriend way more.  No labels or titles, all experiences.

Yeah I think it's a basic numbers game.  They can't all go at once.  You obviously need skill to get up there, even the most accomplished climbers have guides.  

I also get wanting to climb the 7 tallest peaks, one on each continent.  But that's the thing, they have experiences too.  I'm sure you'd support your daughter if she said she wanted to climb the Grand Teton (which kills people regularly too).  

What happened on Everest was purely too many people going to the summit in the same small window.  They'll learn from it but I don't get the shaming.  It takes rediculous amount of skill/effort to get up there. This isn't just "I went to the gym for 6 months and now I go climb it" like the media seems to be implying.   

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Part of problem is poor guide services. In past, from I've read in the usual assortment of recently popular mountaineering books, the guide services would compete, yet coordinate ascents so as to mitigate back ups on summit. There are now a # of new outfitters which appear to be low quality. They are local Nepalese outfits that take anyone. Also, there has been allegations that thr bottled oxygen recharging has been faulty. Reading a book at moment about Mallory's attempt post WWI. Kind of sad when you consider that the mountain, considered sacred by the locals, is being trashed all in the name of hard foreign currency.

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28 minutes ago, Angus said:

Kind of sad when you consider that the mountain, considered sacred by the locals, is being trashed all in the name of hard foreign currency.

Yeah, unfortunately that can be applied to just about every natural wonder and/or historic site around the world.  Nothing is out of the reach of capitalism and human tourist impacts.  If it's worth seeing, humans have likely trashed it.

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