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March 3-4, 2019 Snow Discussion and Obs


WxUSAF
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Ok the weaker/southern crap needs to stop now!!!  

When I brought up March 2014 I didn’t mean for this to immediately start trending that way wrt deamplifcation. Problem is there is way less low level cold to work with this time so a weak squashed wave like that will just be a sad result for everyone this time. That time at least the cold was legit enough for southern areas to get snow. 

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

Ok the weaker/southern crap needs to stop now!!!  

When I brought up March 2014 I didn’t mean for this to immediately start trending that way wrt deamplifcation. Problem is there is way less low level cold to work with this time so a weak squashed wave like that will just be a sad result for everyone this time. That time at least the cold was legit enough for southern areas to get snow. 

At least the RGEM was a nice hit for us just now at 12z. Little more enerentic and 3-4 hours of what looks to be 1”/hr rates. Verbatim about 8-9”. Not buying that with timing but can’t hurt that it comes in hot and best rates are 6-10pm. Workable to get a 6” event out of that. 

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Ok the weaker/southern crap needs to stop now!!!  

When I brought up March 2014 I didn’t mean for this to immediately start trending that way wrt deamplifcation. Problem is there is way less low level cold to work with this time so a weak squashed wave like that will just be a sad result for everyone this time. That time at least the cold was legit enough for southern areas to get snow. 

Just hug the RGEM and 3k NAM. 

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28 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Ok you need to chill.   There are some places in this sub that will get snow.  Some people will be happy with only 2-3” and a lot of people in the northern 1/2 here have a shot at that.  And places that aren’t in a shadow in the northwest 1/3 might get a significant snow.  

Not everyone lives in a snow hole. Im very sympathetic to you. I’ve lived in shadow zones before. Pine Grove PA was one.  State College is actually a frustrating place if you like big storms.   Where I lived near Philly along the Delaware River was one.  Between the UHI and the near sea level elevation and there was often more snow in every direction. Get out of the Delaware valley on either side and snowfall went up.  I know how much it sucks. So I moved. 

I know not everyone can just move.  And I truly remember how frustrating it was living in a shadow zone and yours is likely worse.  But I also know your issues are local. A lot of those storms that failed in your yard were very good snows all around you. Your pessimism towards your yards situation is warranted but projecting that onto the whole region isn’t accurate.   

You're right.  Very negative mood ATM.  Will refrain.  Good luck to those who may see snow.

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What’s really preventing more upside here is the true cold air is hanging back behind this wave. We are working with stale cold and just a tiny bit of cold push that bleeds over the top but the real cold is with the high that is behind the system. We need a thump of precip to overcome marginal temps. And even up here that is true to some extent. Most guidance even has me hovering around 32 during the storm. 

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

I can endorse the rgem. Holds the line on amp. Nice 3-5 hour thump of precip. Gets good snow into the urban area...or as good as can be expected with the marginal temps we have to work with. 

It's actually worse for the cities compared to 6z. One way or the other you have the best shot at 5+ even with the shrinking precip shield. If i was out towards winchester and hagerstown I wouldn't be digging the shrinking precip shield right now. 

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2 minutes ago, Fozz said:

Just hug the RGEM and 3k NAM. 

On the bright side the 12k has been a joke lately. Really really bad. On the down side it’s typically been over amped as an error. This time it’s under amped. But in general the 12k NAM has been the worst meso model imo lately. 

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

What’s really preventing more upside here is the true cold air is hanging back behind this wave. We are working with stale cold and just a tiny bit of cold push that bleeds over the top but the real cold is with the high that is behind the system. We need a thump of precip to overcome marginal temps. And even up here that is true to some extent. Most guidance even has me hovering around 32 during the storm. 

Marginal storms have some of the best winter scenery that you can get if you're on the good side. You have a decent shot of that.

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Forecast high for MRB today is 47.  Currently socked in with fog at 33.  Hourly forecast says 40 by noon and 47 at 3:00.  Have to go south to SHD to find a 40 degree reading currently.  Will be interesting to see how the day goes.  Hoping to preserve some kind of snow pack leading into tomorrow morning.

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NAM's came ever so slightly south. ICON and RGEM went ever so slightly north. Early on GFS appears to be coming north slightly to be a hold. It's a pretty easy forecast imo. 95 north and west have the best chance at accumulating snow. Carrol and Frederick and northern baltimore counties appear to be in the bullseye. 

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15 minutes ago, DDweatherman said:

At least the RGEM was a nice hit for us just now at 12z. Little more enerentic and 3-4 hours of what looks to be 1”/hr rates. Verbatim about 8-9”. Not buying that with timing but can’t hurt that it comes in hot and best rates are 6-10pm. Workable to get a 6” event out of that. 

6” is my target not to be disappointed on this one. 8 is my full win and 10 is my strip naked in celebration. 

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11 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Rgem definitely. 3k is kind of pathetic here. Best qpf is south. Only about 5” up here. 

3k NAM is a Fozz bullseye (minus the Catoctins) so I’m rooting for that. Almost 8” here if you believe the 10:1 map. 

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1 minute ago, Deer Whisperer said:

I just wanna see snow fall from the sky

Then the GFS is for you my friend.  I think we will see snow fall from the sky tomorrow.  Not sure where the fail line sets up but looks ok 95 and west north

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16 minutes ago, WVclimo said:

Forecast high for MRB today is 47.  Currently socked in with fog at 33.  Hourly forecast says 40 by noon and 47 at 3:00.  Have to go south to SHD to find a 40 degree reading currently.  Will be interesting to see how the day goes.  Hoping to preserve some kind of snow pack leading into tomorrow morning.

Yeah. No chance we hit 40 with the fog. I am 32 right now.

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31 minutes ago, MD Snow said:

It's actually worse for the cities compared to 6z. One way or the other you have the best shot at 5+ even with the shrinking precip shield. If i was out towards winchester and hagerstown I wouldn't be digging the shrinking precip shield right now. 

Hmmm. I dont know what you are seeing. Nobody should have come into this expecting 10 inches. The models have consistently shown 4-6 for the NW burbs for the past 2 days? And the precip shield has gotten larger as well. All of PA is in snow now.

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Everything is just to fast and progressive with this little thing.  I'll just hug the 12z GFS and take what ever little snow I get.  Tack on another inch or two to the seasonal total and move on.  I love winter more than most people I know, but I'll be glad when this one is is the rearview mirror.  

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27 minutes ago, Fozz said:

Marginal storms have some of the best winter scenery that you can get if you're on the good side. You have a decent shot of that.

I was trying to be sub centered in that post. Not everyone is on a 1000 foot ridge on the northern edge of the region.  What might prevent this from being a better result for more of the forum imo is the lack of true cold ahead of the wave. The track is workable if we had that. Might mix some but probably would still be a nice event into the cities. But with the stale marginal cold in place it creates a double bind for 95 south. More amped and waa easily presses warm layers into the region. Less amped and don’t get the dynamics needed to overcome the marginal surface temps.  Places without any elevation are stuck in that double bind and walking a tightrope needed just enough amp to get a thump and not enough to press the whole mid level boundary north. A colder antecedent airmass would have solved that and gave all of us more upside here. 

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