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IWXwx

Fall/Winter 2018-19 Complaint/Banter Thread

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37 minutes ago, Snowless in Carrollton said:

It would be something if the south once again got a big early December snow. Last year in early December, parts of GA got a foot ! Does this part of the country ever get a decent snow ? I am still waiting. Might have to move south to see a good snow again. Good grief the weather here is so boring. Cloudy and cold day after day but not much to show for it !

Yes but not often.

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Suppressed or missed to the north. I swear Central Indiana is a winter storm repellent. Sick of it really. I know its early December but come on been the theme like 3 years in a row. 

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4 minutes ago, zinski1990 said:

Suppressed or missed to the north. I swear Central Indiana is a winter storm repellent. Sick of it really. I know its early December but come on been the theme like 3 years in a row. 

Yeah what's the point of it being cold all the time if it's never going to snow ? Might as well be 70 and sunny.

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17 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Beavis... not trying to be snarky, but you really should consider moving north when you can.  

Personally I feel fortunate to live in an area that gets to experience such variety, even though it's not really favorable for the most extreme weather (i.e. no -50 in winter or 110+ in summer, except maybe during the Dust Bowl lol).  

Yep...no offense taken. :bag:  It will happen some day.

Yeah, I do like the variety, but prefer seasons to be seasons.  From June 10th to September 10th (not quite JJA, due to residual lake cooling in the spring), about 90% of the days at ORD feel and look like summer.  In other words, you know it's summer.  But in DJF, much less than 90% of the days feel and look like winter.

As Jonger likes to point out, it's also frustrating because you can drive 3-4 hours north of here, and winter is a completely different world.  Even if you go a few weeks without significant snow falling, there is usually snow on the ground, and ponds/lakes are frozen.  So close yet so far.  

  

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On 12/2/2018 at 4:44 PM, pondo1000 said:

Looks like mid-Atlantic COULD get some significant snow next week. Again, before central Ohio. This area sucks. I miss the winters back east north of Philadelphia. 

We average slightly more snowfall than philly and their nw burbs.  When I lived there in the early/mid 70's it was a joke for winter weather.   I moved to Ohio right after that in the late 70's and thought I had moved to Alaska.    It's all perspective and sometimes you can luck out with a great stretch of winters over many years, (see Detroit), or a bad stretch too, (see Indy).   Those areas will reverse as climo eventually always wins out.   

It does seem the midatlantic has had a stretch of winters lately that feature at least one good storm ....but they have also gone many years in a row with nada.   You look at the snowfall totals for midatlantic cities and it's deceiving.   It's like they'll go 7 years with 12" and then get 2 years in a row with a 30" noreaster.   Quite honestly, as I get older I'd probably prefer that winter climo over endless subfreezing days and nickle and dime snowfalls, ie Central Ohio.     

But in the end snow melts....  congestion, rude people, and high taxes don't.   

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11 minutes ago, buckeye said:

We average slightly more snowfall than philly and their nw burbs.  When I lived there in the early/mid 70's it was a joke for winter weather.   I moved to Ohio right after that in the late 70's and thought I had moved to Alaska.    It's all perspective and sometimes you can luck out with a great stretch of winters over many years, (see Detroit), or a bad stretch too, (see Indy).   Those areas will reverse as climo eventually always wins out.   

It does seem the midatlantic has had a stretch of winters lately that feature at least one good storm ....but they have also gone many years in a row with nada.   You look at the snowfall totals for midatlantic cities and it's deceiving.   It's like they'll go 7 years with 12" and then get 2 years in a row with a 30" noreaster.   Quite honestly, as I get older I'd probably prefer that winter climo over endless subfreezing days and nickle and dime snowfalls, ie Central Ohio.     

But in the end snow melts....  congestion, rude people, and high taxes don't.   

Last winter was just awful here. Tons of cold days but I think the biggest snow we had was 4". Ended up with about 2 feet total but mostly just 1-2" snows.

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1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

Yep...no offense taken. :bag:  It will happen some day.

Yeah, I do like the variety, but prefer seasons to be seasons.  From June 10th to September 10th (not quite JJA, due to residual lake cooling in the spring), about 90% of the days at ORD feel and look like summer.  In other words, you know it's summer.  But in DJF, much less than 90% of the days feel and look like winter.

As Jonger likes to point out, it's also frustrating because you can drive 3-4 hours north of here, and winter is a completely different world.  Even if you go a few weeks without significant snow falling, there is usually snow on the ground, and ponds/lakes are frozen.  So close yet so far.  

  

See this is where it's all perspective. You say that only 25% of the Winter days are like Winter but 90% of the summer days are like summer. I guarantee I could find probably 8 out of 10 people who would say the exact opposite. You're giving a strict criteria for Winter. Per your winter scale, if the high is 20° but there is only 1 inch of snow on the ground, that's not Winter. If there is 6" of snow on the ground but the high is 34°, that's not Winter.  You did not give a scale for what is a summer day, but if 90% of the days from mid June to mid September are summer, considering the Great Lakes averages 15 days or less of 90° per year, I have to assume according to you, a day with a high of 78゚is summer. Again it's all in perspective but quite an unfair and unrealistic playing field you are setting forth.  And I say it again, this is coming from someone who has very similar weather likes as you.

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4 hours ago, Snowless in Carrollton said:

It would be something if the south once again got a big early December snow. Last year in early December, parts of GA got a foot ! Does this part of the country ever get a decent snow ? I am still waiting. Might have to move south to see a good snow again. Good grief the weather here is so boring. Cloudy and cold day after day but not much to show for it !

You definitely did not move to one of the better areas of this subforum for snow. And last year sounded on the extra boring side for you. With that said it's definitely a laughable comparison of Indiana and Georgia.  Decent snowfalls in Indiana probably outnumber decent snow falls in Georgia 15 to 1.  You will certainly see a decent snowfall at some point in Indiana.

 

Edit. I looked up snowfalls since 2000 in Atlanta and Indianapolis. Since 2000, Atlanta has had 3 snowfalls over 4", the largest being 4.6". Indianapolis has had 31 snowfalls over 4", including 17 over 6" and 4 over 10", the largest being 12.3".

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1 hour ago, beavis1729 said:

Yep...no offense taken. :bag:  It will happen some day.

Yeah, I do like the variety, but prefer seasons to be seasons.  From June 10th to September 10th (not quite JJA, due to residual lake cooling in the spring), about 90% of the days at ORD feel and look like summer.  In other words, you know it's summer.  But in DJF, much less than 90% of the days feel and look like winter.

As Jonger likes to point out, it's also frustrating because you can drive 3-4 hours north of here, and winter is a completely different world.  Even if you go a few weeks without significant snow falling, there is usually snow on the ground, and ponds/lakes are frozen.  So close yet so far.  

  

My thoughts are if you really want to live somewhere that has true summer weather about 4 months a year and true winter weather about 4 months a year with about 4 months of in between "crap" weather a year live around the 45th Parallel in a snow belt around the great lakes or above 6000' out west. I feel for the winter weather lovers that live south of MI/WI, that area doesn't have deep snow and cold for months on end during the winter. Would be like if I lived in northern MI and wanted to play golf all year round. I hope you guys in IN and OH get some good snow this season, maybe snowfreek will leave his snow magnet off long enough so you guys can cash in on a good storm or two.

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15 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

See this is where it's all perspective. You say that only 25% of the Winter days are like Winter but 90% of the summer days are like summer. I guarantee I could find probably 8 out of 10 people who would say the exact opposite. You're giving a strict criteria for Winter. Per your winter scale, if the high is 20° but there is only 1 inch of snow on the ground, that's not Winter. If there is 6" of snow on the ground but the high is 34°, that's not Winter.  You did not give a scale for what is a summer day, but if 90% of the days from mid June to mid September are summer, considering the Great Lakes averages 15 days or less of 90° per year, I have to assume according to you, a day with a high of 78゚is summer. Again it's all in perspective but quite an unfair and unrealistic playing field you are setting forth.  And I say it again, this is coming from someone who has very similar weather likes as you.

We agree

8 hours ago, IWXwx said:

That's the crux of the problem. Your definition of winter differs from most of the general public's, including me. Our climo features weeks of highs in the thirties and lows in the twenties and teens which most would consider winter weather whether or not that includes snow. People who aren't weenies consider snow and cold a nuisance to their day-to-day lives.

 

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29 minutes ago, slow poke said:

My thoughts are if you really want to live somewhere that has true summer weather about 4 months a year and true winter weather about 4 months a year with about 4 months of in between "crap" weather a year live around the 45th Parallel in a snow belt around the great lakes or above 6000' out west. I feel for the winter weather lovers that live south of MI/WI, that area doesn't have deep snow and cold for months on end during the winter. Would be like if I lived in northern MI and wanted to play golf all year round. I hope you guys in IN and OH get some good snow this season, maybe snowfreek will leave his snow magnet off long enough so you guys can cash in on a good storm or two.

I honestly think the best climates IF you want true summer AND true winter are the likes of Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. I really like my Detroit climate for the most part but it isnt my ideal, my ideal would be Marquette. I'm just talking in my opinion I cannot think of a better place to experience distinct seasons. We definitely have long winters and long summers. There are breaks in both, including cool spells in summer and thaws and warm spells in Winter. But the bottom line is winters are full of lots of clouds, lots of snowflakes, and numerous snow systems coming from multiple sources, just as summers are filled with a lot of sunshine and a lot of warm and humid weather. When you are getting up to the 45th parallel, there are certainly several hot days in the summer but there really isn't what id call true summer to satisfy a sun worshippers needs. Winters of course are great (Although I would be very aggravated if I lived that far North but outside of a snow belt. Sure they have frozen Lakes and snow on the ground, but their snowfall totals are extremely weak in comparison to very nearby counterparts). On the flip side, once you are South of 39-40N, Summer is long and hot, no argument there, and there are certainly many cold snaps and several snowfalls in winter, but i wouldnt call it true winter.

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IWX says that the blob northwest of the city is "plant induced snow". I am assuming that they mean factory releases.

120418 Factory Induced snow.jpg

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Right...and nothing Josh or IWX are saying is incorrect, with respect to the general public. 

However, being on a weather board that has a lot of hardcore winter weather fans, I imagined that folks here would enjoy, appreciate, analyze, and hope for winter a lot more than the general public.  In other words, winter weenies who are often frustrated with their climo. :)  But I could be wrong, and it appears that I am.

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1 hour ago, slow poke said:

My thoughts are if you really want to live somewhere that has true summer weather about 4 months a year and true winter weather about 4 months a year with about 4 months of in between "crap" weather a year live around the 45th Parallel in a snow belt around the great lakes or above 6000' out west. I feel for the winter weather lovers that live south of MI/WI, that area doesn't have deep snow and cold for months on end during the winter. Would be like if I lived in northern MI and wanted to play golf all year round. I hope you guys in IN and OH get some good snow this season, maybe snowfreek will leave his snow magnet off long enough so you guys can cash in on a good storm or two.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.  We'll occasionally get some decent winters here, like 1978-79 and 2013-14...but not consistent.

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7 hours ago, slow poke said:

My thoughts are if you really want to live somewhere that has true summer weather about 4 months a year and true winter weather about 4 months a year with about 4 months of in between "crap" weather a year live around the 45th Parallel in a snow belt around the great lakes or above 6000' out west. I feel for the winter weather lovers that live south of MI/WI, that area doesn't have deep snow and cold for months on end during the winter. Would be like if I lived in northern MI and wanted to play golf all year round. I hope you guys in IN and OH get some good snow this season, maybe snowfreek will leave his snow magnet off long enough so you guys can cash in on a good storm or two.

Even my area just about always has more snow than Detroit. When the winter features borderline winter weather, more often then not Detroit is screwed while we have snow.

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6 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

I honestly think the best climates IF you want true summer AND true winter are the likes of Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. I really like my Detroit climate for the most part but it isnt my ideal, my ideal would be Marquette. I'm just talking in my opinion I cannot think of a better place to experience distinct seasons. We definitely have long winters and long summers. There are breaks in both, including cool spells in summer and thaws and warm spells in Winter. But the bottom line is winters are full of lots of clouds, lots of snowflakes, and numerous snow systems coming from multiple sources, just as summers are filled with a lot of sunshine and a lot of warm and humid weather. When you are getting up to the 45th parallel, there are certainly several hot days in the summer but there really isn't what id call true summer to satisfy a sun worshippers needs. Winters of course are great (Although I would be very aggravated if I lived that far North but outside of a snow belt. Sure they have frozen Lakes and snow on the ground, but their snowfall totals are extremely weak in comparison to very nearby counterparts). On the flip side, once you are South of 39-40N, Summer is long and hot, no argument there, and there are certainly many cold snaps and several snowfalls in winter, but i wouldnt call it true winter.

I'm really hoping to pull the trigger on a vacation home at some point. Grand Marais or bust. I'd love to be on a river or small lake. I'd just leave my sleds there and drive up for big LES events.

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9 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

I honestly think the best climates IF you want true summer AND true winter are the likes of Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. I really like my Detroit climate for the most part but it isnt my ideal, my ideal would be Marquette. I'm just talking in my opinion I cannot think of a better place to experience distinct seasons. We definitely have long winters and long summers. There are breaks in both, including cool spells in summer and thaws and warm spells in Winter. But the bottom line is winters are full of lots of clouds, lots of snowflakes, and numerous snow systems coming from multiple sources, just as summers are filled with a lot of sunshine and a lot of warm and humid weather. When you are getting up to the 45th parallel, there are certainly several hot days in the summer but there really isn't what id call true summer to satisfy a sun worshippers needs. Winters of course are great (Although I would be very aggravated if I lived that far North but outside of a snow belt. Sure they have frozen Lakes and snow on the ground, but their snowfall totals are extremely weak in comparison to very nearby counterparts). On the flip side, once you are South of 39-40N, Summer is long and hot, no argument there, and there are certainly many cold snaps and several snowfalls in winter, but i wouldnt call it true winter.

Buffalo gets everything those locations get and 3/4 times the snowfall. We are basically at the same latitude. It's the best combination of living close to a bigger city and big snowfall events. (around 1.5-2 million in WNY) The lake shadow keeps us warm and sunny from May-September. The only bad part is we don't get as many high end severe weather events. You have to get 30-40 miles away from the lake to get the good stuff. 

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6 hours ago, Jonger said:

Even my area just about always has more snow than Detroit. When the winter features borderline winter weather, more often then not Detroit is screwed while we have snow.

Borderline Winter weather, meaning mixing or borderline temps, will often see you do better than Detroit. But in the heart of winter ive seen your area get more fringed while detroit slammed. But your area up through Detroit's northern suburbs is an area of somewhat enhanced snowfall. Once you get to northern Oakland County it's an absolute microclimate. One thing some people may not realize is that in lower Michigan it's not simply a South to North thing of who gets the most snow. In fact the Detroit area as a whole very often times gets more snowfall than mid Michigan or the Southeast corner of northeast lower Michigan. It's something most people outstate would not realize because obviously the spotlight is on the snowbelt areas of northern Michigan that get absolutely blasted.  There have even been about 3 or 4 winters this century where Detroit has gotten more snow then the banana belt of the upper peninsula (i.e. Menominee area).

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3 hours ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Buffalo gets everything those locations get and 3/4 times the snowfall. We are basically at the same latitude. It's the best combination of living close to a bigger city and big snowfall events. (around 1.5-2 million in WNY) The lake shadow keeps us warm and sunny from May-September. The only bad part is we don't get as many high end severe weather events. You have to get 30-40 miles away from the lake to get the good stuff. 

I was actually thinking of adding Buffalo to that and then I was trying to remember if they can get the hot temperatures with the water. Then again I really suppose 88゚dewpoint 73° versus 94° with a dew point of 69゚ is just noise lol. Buffalo is certainly a better snow location, I just did not know how hot it could get in the summer.  One thing is for certain the lower Great Lakes Stretching into the upper Midwest in a line between Des Moines in Minneapolis is a perfect area to experience 4 true seasons.  Many of us snow addicts, some worse than others lol, wish to live in climates that are much more Winter heavy and less of a balance between true summer and true Winter.

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This year it felt like both spring and fall were skipped here and the seasons seemed to transition directly from winter to summer to winter. I did a calculation for Peoria, IL to see how the daily temps this year compared to normal. My criteria for spring/fall like weather was highs in the 60s and 70s. The "average" number of days with highs 60F to 79.9F is 109 per year. That is, the daily average high temp is in that range from April 8 to June 6 and from September 9 to October 27. This year there were only 65 days in that range, or 59.6% of normal. I can't say I am a fan of skipping the transition seasons.

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56 minutes ago, fluoronium said:

This year it felt like both spring and fall were skipped here and the seasons seemed to transition directly from winter to summer to winter. I did a calculation for Peoria, IL to see how the daily temps this year compared to normal. My criteria for spring/fall like weather was highs in the 60s and 70s. The "average" number of days with highs 60F to 79.9F is 109 per year. That is, the daily average high temp is in that range from April 8 to June 6 and from September 9 to October 27. This year there were only 65 days in that range, or 59.6% of normal. I can't say I am a fan of skipping the transition seasons.

It was definitely like that, weekend after Mother's day I was at Comerica Park and it was in the 40s, 2 weeks later it was in the 90s on Memorial Day. As for fall we had 80s right up until early October then flipped the switch and have been cold since. Sunday actually was one of our warmer days since we switched.

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1 hour ago, fluoronium said:

This year it felt like both spring and fall were skipped here and the seasons seemed to transition directly from winter to summer to winter. I did a calculation for Peoria, IL to see how the daily temps this year compared to normal. My criteria for spring/fall like weather was highs in the 60s and 70s. The "average" number of days with highs 60F to 79.9F is 109 per year. That is, the daily average high temp is in that range from April 8 to June 6 and from September 9 to October 27. This year there were only 65 days in that range, or 59.6% of normal. I can't say I am a fan of skipping the transition seasons.

You are not even exaggerating. There was literally no spring or fall ( which happen to be my 2 favorite seasons).

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2 hours ago, fluoronium said:

This year it felt like both spring and fall were skipped here and the seasons seemed to transition directly from winter to summer to winter. I did a calculation for Peoria, IL to see how the daily temps this year compared to normal. My criteria for spring/fall like weather was highs in the 60s and 70s. The "average" number of days with highs 60F to 79.9F is 109 per year. That is, the daily average high temp is in that range from April 8 to June 6 and from September 9 to October 27. This year there were only 65 days in that range, or 59.6% of normal. I can't say I am a fan of skipping the transition seasons.

Precisely. That lack of transition seasons (and consequent lack of severe weather, until last Saturday) is my main gripe with 2018 (and actually, most of this decade). If this is what climate change looks like, maybe I need to find some new hobbies.

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It is pretty crazy how much of a tightrope there is within this subforum. Its about a 250 mile swath of the region that experiences almost the best climate on the continent (depending on perspective) Normally 30+ inches of snow falls, decent cold but occasional thaws, pond hockey and winter activities can be done with some degree of difficulty. Summers average in the 80s with occasional heat waves. You drive just north of this region and its 7 months of winter and 2 months of summer and drive just south of this region and its 7 months summer and 2 months winter. 

The winner in my mind for best city is Buffalo NY/Fort Erie Ontario. Numerous snowstorms, and decent lake effect events. Spring/Fall is delayed by the surrounding lakes allowing for a more step up/step down to seasons. Summer is muggy and sometimes almost tropical feeling when Lake Erie gets to near 80F surface temps. Add to that-Buffalo has 1.5M people and two professional sports teams and Fort Erie is right across from Buffalo and roughly 45 minutes to a region (Toronto/Hamilton) with 8M people and 3 professional sports teams. 

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3 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Wish I could see a frame or two beyond this.  System is still in the deepening stage.

fv3p_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_64.thumb.png.f2dd60a4f8ff270df283c0afa8ab78f5.png

Chuck them deep :lmao:, but ya that would be the mother of all storms when looking at the synoptic pattern.

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