Fall Banter, Observation and General Discussion 2018

[J.Spin]

12 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

You definitely notice a difference moving from say the latitude of the Mass Pike up to just south of the Canadian border.  I went from valley location at Albany, NY to valley location at BTV and it was quite the increase in winter in that transfer.  Your cold/snow season is longer because of the latitude.  Cold fronts hit there first in New England.  BTV is a nice winter upgrade for anyone who lives in a valley south of here or on parts of the coastal plain on the whole, even with the lower chance of a big dog event. 

The issue with BTV is that significantly more snow and winter-appeal lies mere miles away into the western foothills and then even through to Montpelier.  As a snow lover, that nagged at me a bit.  I was so close to more of what you might think of as "NNE winter" appeal.  A lot of events feature more snow just 10 miles away.  But you weight that against living in one of the best small cities you'll find.

 

Yeah, I was sort of lucky in that I lived in Burlington before I was too aware of the massive climate disparity relative to spots out in the Greens.  The difference was obvious with respect to the higher elevations of course, but I had no clue about the differences even with respect to the mountain valleys.  You often speak of the massive climate gradient between BTV and the Greens, so in that respect it’s awesome to live anywhere in the area because you can experience such dramatic changes over short distances.  From Burlington, you can simply head east just 10 or 20 miles and be in an area with literally triple, or even quadruple the annual snowfall.  And we’re not talking multiples of a measly 10, 20, or even 40 inches, that’s relative to BTV’s 80ish inches.  Eyewall has probably been the perfect example of taking advantage of his location to experience the incredible snow gradients with his frequent trips from the Champlain Valley up to Bolton Valley in the winter.  Personally, I love getting to traverse from the spine out to BTV and back so frequently, especially during the winter.  Heading out from dumping snow to sunshine, and often back into the maelstrom again at the end of the day is quite a way to experience the neat climate gradient we’ve got here.

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

You definitely notice a difference moving from say the latitude of the Mass Pike up to just south of the Canadian border.  I went from valley location at Albany, NY to valley location at BTV and it was quite the increase in winter in that transfer.  Your cold/snow season is longer because of the latitude.  Cold fronts hit there first in New England.  BTV is a nice winter upgrade for anyone who lives in a valley south of here or on parts of the coastal plain on the whole, even with the lower chance of a big dog event. 

The issue with BTV is that significantly more snow and winter-appeal lies mere miles away into the western foothills and then even through to Montpelier.  As a snow lover, that nagged at me a bit.  I was so close to more of what you might think of as "NNE winter" appeal.  A lot of events feature more snow just 10 miles away.  But you weight that against living in one of the best small cities you'll find.

 

Eyewall went like 4 seasons without a 6”+ event lol. I dunno, I can’t do 80” of that many pennies and nickels....snoozer. It’s a nice city though, been there several times. 

[weathafella]

22 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Eyewall went like 4 seasons without a 6”+ event lol. I dunno, I can’t do 80” of that many pennies and nickels....snoozer. It’s a nice city though, been there several times. 

Eyewall moves here like 3 years ago.  But his first years after living in the south were rough.   Definitely a lot of snow coming in nickels and dimes.  These further west locations have more trouble tapping the Atlantic.

Last year BTV had about 95 inches.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

19 minutes ago, weathafella said:

Eyewall moves here like 3 years ago.  But his first years after living in the south were rough.   Definitely a lot of snow coming in nickels and dimes.  These further west locations have more trouble tapping the Atlantic.

Last year BTV had about 95 inches.

Burlington has been on my short list of places I would go outside of W MA.  

Northampton > Greenfield > Brattleboro corridor has been an awesome stomping ground but the cool stuff is spread out over 40 Miles.  Burlington tempts me for its bigger town feel, it’s on the water and has better snow climo. Plus you are so close to Montreal!

[weathafella]

I added wrong.  89 inches roughly.

[moneypitmike]

19 hours ago, Damage In Tolland said:

The amount of dead Oaks along roads in many parts of town is insane. They just did a crush job in certain locations the last few years. There’s also ones this year that were not totally eaten , but all of them have turned brown . So I don’t know if that means they died or just done for season or maybe the humid summer contributed. Maybe Tamarac would know. But, I do not recall seeing any with brown leaves the last 2 summers like this one .

I noticed a lot of bare trees driving on the Pike between perhaps Ludlow to Charlton-ish.  I suspected it was gypsy moth damage.  Glad we don't live there.

Speaking of where I live, we should have the Pit on the market within the next few weeks.  After 10 years, this will be a tough departure.  Finding a place with great qpf will lessen the blow.

 

[CoastalWx]

5 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

I noticed a lot of bare trees driving on the Pike between perhaps Ludlow to Charlton-ish.  I suspected it was gypsy moth damage.  Glad we don't live there.

Speaking of where I live, we should have the Pit on the market within the next few weeks.  After 10 years, this will be a tough departure.  Finding a place with great qpf will lessen the blow.

 

Where would you go?

[Damage In Tolland]

16 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

I noticed a lot of bare trees driving on the Pike between perhaps Ludlow to Charlton-ish.  I suspected it was gypsy moth damage.  Glad we don't live there.

Speaking of where I live, we should have the Pit on the market within the next few weeks.  After 10 years, this will be a tough departure.  Finding a place with great qpf will lessen the blow.

 

Yeah they hammered that area too. That’s what that is . They eat them 2 straight years they die. It’s iron clad 

[moneypitmike]

23 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Where would you go?

My wife is a VP at Clark, so we'll be looking in the ORH area.  Worcester has the best houses--just fantastic architecture.  We had lived there about 15 years ago.  

[HoarfrostHubb]

11 hours ago, weathafella said:

Better vs Boston.  81 inch snow climo

That’s better than Worcester or mi casa...I always thought it was a bit of a snow hole, but I guess I am wrong

[moneypitmike]

2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

That’s better than Worcester or mi casa...I always thought it was a bit of a snow hole, but I guess I am wrong

They're a tortoise, not a hare.  They just get lots of pennies and nickles that add up.  Colder temps allow the season to start earlier which helps in the change collection.

[HoarfrostHubb]

3 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

They're a tortoise, not a hare.  They just get lots of pennies and nickles that add up.  Colder temps allow the season to start earlier which helps in the change collection.

Yeah.  After reading subsequent posts, I recalled Eyewall’s drought of decent events.  I wonder how they do on retention and snowpack?

For Worcester, the areas around WPI and Assumption have some really great old houses. Worcester, while still sketchy in parts, has been turning a lot around, really great restaurants, a nice theater downtown, and the WooSox will be dumping s lot of money in there.   We enjoy going there now and then.   Greater Good brews nice products in Wormtown, too.

[backedgeapproaching]

12 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

That’s better than Worcester or mi casa...I always thought it was a bit of a snow hole, but I guess I am wrong

As Jspin and PF, its all relative. It is somewhat of snowhole considering within 10-15 miles snowfall can be much higher places east. But being near the Canadian border, average is bound to be higher.

Retention is pretty poor(again relative to surrounding areas), 33" is the highest ever recorded depth at BTV (records back to 1895).  Retention is bad up and down VT west of the Green Mountains as its so easy to get a torch on Sw/S winds.

[moneypitmike]

2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Yeah.  After reading subsequent posts, I recalled Eyewall’s drought of decent events.  I wonder how they do on retention and snowpack?

For Worcester, the areas around WPI and Assumption have some really great old houses. Worcester, while still sketchy in parts, has been turning a lot around, really great restaurants, a nice theater downtown, and the WooSox will be dumping s lot of money in there.   We enjoy going there now and then.   Greater Good brews nice products in Wormtown, too.

Yeah--we're looking west side (which is where we had lived before).  It does seem that the long-touted (decades) but never arriving turnaround of Worcester is actually taking hold.  Like any city it will have its issues but it has a lot of things going for it with new good news regularly coming out of it, e.g., ORH has finally gotten commercial airlines coming in (Jet Blue, American and Delta now).  They've got a ways to go in that respect but that's a big investment on the part of those airlines.

Glad we'll be buying now rather than trying to later.  First we need to sell the Pit.  Things don't move quickly here so I'm pretty sure I'm here for at least one more season of qpf-woes.

[J.Spin]

25 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

As Jspin and PF, its all relative. It is somewhat of snowhole considering within 10-15 miles snowfall can be much higher places east. But being near the Canadian border, average is bound to be higher.

Retention is pretty poor(again relative to surrounding areas), 33" is the highest ever recorded depth at BTV (records back to 1895).  Retention is bad up and down VT west of the Green Mountains as its so easy to get a torch on Sw/S winds.

Yeah, BTV absolutely does have respectable annual snowfall, with probably somewhat below average snow retention due to its broad valley geography, but the big reason it appears to come up short is the massive snowfall gradient we have here.  When you’re 10-15 miles away from what are essentially the snowiest locations in the entire Eastern U.S., comparisons are going to be made, and it’s going to be hard to stand out or look as respectable as if considered in isolation.

[weathafella]

1 hour ago, moneypitmike said:

Yeah--we're looking west side (which is where we had lived before).  It does seem that the long-touted (decades) but never arriving turnaround of Worcester is actually taking hold.  Like any city it will have its issues but it has a lot of things going for it with new good news regularly coming out of it, e.g., ORH has finally gotten commercial airlines coming in (Jet Blue, American and Delta now).  They've got a ways to go in that respect but that's a big investment on the part of those airlines.

Glad we'll be buying now rather than trying to later.  First we need to sell the Pit.  Things don't move quickly here so I'm pretty sure I'm here for at least one more season of qpf-woes.

When will you put it up?  This summer is still a hot market in my hood.  Houses sell quickly still well above asking so you may be pleasantly surprised if you list it in the next few weeks.  Good luck!

[moneypitmike]

38 minutes ago, weathafella said:

When will you put it up?  This summer is still a hot market in my hood.  Houses sell quickly still well above asking so you may be pleasantly surprised if you list it in the next few weeks.  Good luck!

Thanks, Jerry.  I expect we'll have it up within 3 weeks.  Meanwhile, dumping a bunch of stuff on Craigs list (I have two sets of snow tires in case anyone's in need).

One good thing about moving toward central mass is easier proximity to the get-togethers.

Beautiful day--pushing 69* at 10:30.

[mreaves]

33 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

Thanks, Jerry.  I expect we'll have it up within 3 weeks.  Meanwhile, dumping a bunch of stuff on Craigs list (I have two sets of snow tires in case anyone's in need).

One good thing about moving toward central mass is easier proximity to the get-togethers.

Beautiful day--pushing 69* at 10:30.

What size are the snow tires?

[moneypitmike]

2 minutes ago, mreaves said:

What size are the snow tires?

Is this the size?  

Both sets are studded.  $100/set.

[mreaves]

40 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

Is this the size?  

Both sets are studded.  $100/set.

That’s the size but unfortunately they don’t fit my car. Thanks for taking the pics though. 

[moneypitmike]

3 minutes ago, mreaves said:

That’s the size but unfortunately they don’t fit my car. Thanks for taking the pics though. 

Bummer--good luck!

If you know anyone who's looking, point 'em my way. 

[HIPPYVALLEY]

4 hours ago, moneypitmike said:

My wife is a VP at Clark, so we'll be looking in the ORH area.  Worcester has the best houses--just fantastic architecture.  We had lived there about 15 years ago.  

If you move before winter it will ensure that W MA finally gets some signature snow storms.

[moneypitmike]

Just now, HIPPYVALLEY said:

If you move before winter it will ensure that W MA finally gets some signature snow storms.

LOL--you know that's going to be the case.  The IP will fly through ORH, Kevin will be flipping to rain and GC will be buried.

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

23 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

If you move before winter it will ensure that W MA finally gets some signature snow storms.

Same thoughts here. Let’s help him sell quickly. 

[weathafella]

4 hours ago, J.Spin said:

Yeah, BTV absolutely does have respectable annual snowfall, with probably somewhat below average snow retention due to its broad valley geography, but the big reason it appears to come up short is the massive snowfall gradient we have here.  When you’re 10-15 miles away from what are essentially the snowiest locations in the entire Eastern U.S., comparisons are going to be made, and it’s going to be hard to stand out or look as respectable as if considered in isolation.

Looking west and seeing a bunch of towns on the upslope tells me 15 miles out of town would bring 150+.

[powderfreak]

16 hours ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Eyewall went like 4 seasons without a 6”+ event lol. I dunno, I can’t do 80” of that many pennies and nickels....snoozer. It’s a nice city though, been there several times. 

That's a bit of hyperbole but yeah eyewall came at the wrong time.  My first winter month in BTV was two 20-inch storms and a 10" wet paste thundersnow for 50" in Dec 2003 lol.  

There obviously was a good period of suppression depression there but BTV had a 30-inch event two winters ago and last winter had a big event.  I mean it is a light to moderate high frequency type climo but it depends on the year.  There's been a bit of a drought there for a few years but winters like 02-03, spring 07, 07-08, 10-11, 12-13, etc would all be very good winters compared to areas further south.

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, weathafella said:

Looking west and seeing a bunch of towns on the upslope tells me 15 miles out of town would bring 150+.

Yeah, just look at JSpin's totals.  

Places like Underhill and Jericho can get 200"+ like JSpin in the good winters.  

Places like where it snows 25 out of 30 days in a winter month at times.

Its one thing to miss out on a coastal storm that's 175 miles away but to miss out on the upslope snowstorms a couple miles away can be painful.  It would be like being in a deform band at BOS while the sun is out at BED.

[weathafella]

Hey freak-we’re in Stowe!  Taking a little hike.  The village with 148 inch snow climo.  You complain too much in winter!

[powderfreak]

Just now, weathafella said:

Hey freak-we’re in Stowe!  Taking a little hike.  The village with 148 inch snow climo.  You complain too much in winter!

Haha nice.  I think it's more like 125" .

Where are you hiking?  Busy day in the mountains.  We have two dislocated shoulders up on the mountain for seperate hiking falls right now.  Watch your step!

[ORH_wxman]

MPM, try looking in Paxton. Best snow spot for towns adjacent to ORH. You said you were looking west side anyway and Paxton is right up the road from Tatnuck Square. 

If you are insisting on staying within the city limits, then the 3 best spots for snow are def gonna be airport hill, Moreland hill, and winter hill.