September 2018 Discussions & Observations Thread

[Stormlover74]

30 minutes ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

I’m sorry but In no way in hell is New York metro including  Long Island part of mid Atlantic. It’s just not! We have a way different climate here. It’s a different region. Simple as that! 

Well you're not New England so where else are you?

[NewYorkweatherfan]

5 minutes ago, Stormlover74 said:

Well you're not New England so where else are you?

Tough question. I’d say in between. But it’s neither.

[psv88]

2 minutes ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

Tough question. I’d say in between. But it’s neither.

Its the mid atlantic. 

[forkyfork]

we have a mid atlantic climate especially in light of climate change. discussion over

[psv88]

4 minutes ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

No it isnt

You honestly going to sit here on a weather board and tell me that NY isnt in the Mid-Atlantic? 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mid-Atlantic

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mid-atlantic-states

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/mid-Atlantic

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mid-atlantic

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/the-mid-atlantic-states

https://www.roughguides.com/destinations/north-america/usa/mid-atlantic/new-york-state/long-island/

https://www.longisland.com/long-island.html

Long Island Geography

To the north of the island is Long Island Sound, which separates it from the coast of Connecticut and Rhode Island. To the south are the Great South Bay, South Oyster Bay, and Jamaica Bay, which are actually lagoons, protected from the Atlantic Ocean by a string of narrow barrier islands, most notably Fire Island. The island separates into two forks at the eastern end, known as the North Fork and South Fork.

 

Long Island is interesting because it is geographically part of the Mid-Atlantic, however many towns and hamlets along the island's north shore and in eastern Suffolk County, such as Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson and Sag Harbor seem to resemble New England towns, while many of the towns and hamlets along the south shore, such as Long Beach, Valley Stream, and Babylon seem to resemble Mid-Atlantic coastal communities, especially those on the shore between New Jersey and Virginia.

 

Long Island can be considered the geographical border between the Mid-Atlantic and New England.

[Dan76]

Ok northern mid atl

[Rjay]

1 hour ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

I’m sorry but In no way in hell is New York metro including  Long Island part of mid Atlantic. It’s just not! We have a way different climate here. It’s a different region. Simple as that! 

It is, just stop

[donsutherland1]

Record High Temperatures for 9/5 (through 5:00 PM):

Albany: 92° (old record: 91°, 1973)
Binghamton: 87° (tied record set in 1983)
Burlington: 93° (old record: 90°, 1973)
Concord: 91° (tied record set in 1953 and tied in 1961)
Erie: 93° (old record: 92°, 1881)
Georgetown: 93° (tied record set in 1961)
Harrisburg: 94° (old record: 93°, 1954)
Philadelphia: 95° (old record: 92°, 1961, 1973 and 1985)
Scranton: 91° (old record: 90°, 1983)
Trenton: 93° (tied record set in 1910)
Wilmington, DE: 93° (tied record set in 1961 and tied in 1983)

 

[winterwarlock]

93 for my high today...3rd day in a row at 93....dont know why mets were going with lower numbers for today in the mid to upper 80s on tv.....I told you guys a few days ago numbers would be higher than what they are forecasting...I am skeptical as well whether it will truly be as cool as low to mid 70s this weekend, especially after the mets busted last weekend as well

[Dan76]

They have me for 70 sunday we shall see.

[bluewave]

1 hour ago, forkyfork said:

we have a mid atlantic climate especially in light of climate change. discussion over

Mid-Atlantic temperatures and New England snowfall during the 2010's.

[rclab]

1 hour ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

I’m sorry but In no way in hell is New York metro including  Long Island part of mid Atlantic. It’s just not! We have a way different climate here. It’s a different region. Simple as that! 

I guess when you have nice warm ocean as a neighbor to your east and a cold continental land mass as a neighbor to your west your weather can be anything at possibly anytime, which makes this forum so exciting.

[forkyfork]

20 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Mid-Atlantic temperatures and New England snowfall during the 2010's.

we're becoming a much snowier atlanta

[Drz1111]

The mid-Atlantic versus not mid-Atlantic discussion is interesting - and has a real answer.

generally, “mid-Atlantic” corresponded to land on which large-scale agriculture was possible: put differently, the land that stayed under cultivation after the rural depopulation of the late 18th / early 19th century when most small-scale / subsistence farmers moved to richer lands in the Midwest, particularly Ohio.  As it turns out, the border for commercial agriculture falls precisely into NY: it’s the terminal moraine.  On the moraine and north, rocky soil, often with hodge podge assortments of infertile sands and poorly drained clays, basically made agriculture uneconomic as soon as better land was cleared; south of the moraine, the sedimentary cover of the coastal plain was preserved and commercial agriculture remains viable.

if you go by that line, the south shore of LI is mid-Atlantic and the north shore is not. I’d argue that the parts of the north fork developed on the outwash plain from the recessional moraine count as mid Atlantic too.  Historically and cultural that’s probably the most correct line, though the hamptons pretty clearly have more of an historic affinity to the New England islands (Block, MV, Nantucket) than the mid Atlantic.

geogrpahically, this holds too.  Even further south in the ‘heart’ of the mid Atlantic, the fall line is a significant geological and cultural boundary that, among other things, separates predominantly white rural populations from mixed rural populations.  NYC is where the fall line intersects the coast, also because of glaciation.

oceongraphicslly, it’s a little different.  You’d probably want to group the coast into 3 regions:  true New England, which extends down to the north side of the Cape and is dominated by the influence of the Labrador Current and cold summertime SSTs; the Southeast - south of Hatteras which is dominated by the Gulf Stream and has 80degree+ summertime SSTs and substantially more frequent tropical activity; and then an intermediate zone from around Hatteras to Chatham, with summer SSTs in the 70s.  Seems pretty clear that’s the Mid-Atlantic, oceanographically.

Finally Climate.  By Koppen, the obvious dividing line between mid Atlantic and New England is the border of the Humid subtropic zone:  ie where the mean temp of the coldest month is above 32.  Remarkably, that tracks almost precisely the geographic boundary, with the exception of the 5 Boros which would fall into humid subtropical even setting aside the UHI.  But the south shore of LI is humid subtropical climate and so the NJ highlands and those seem midatlantic; white plains, at least pre UHI and AGW, was humid continental.

so taking this all together:  NJ south of I-80 and the intensively farmed part of LI: south Brooklyn and points east - are mid Atlantic both culturally, geographically and climatically.  Northern suburbs of NY, and all the coast bordering LI sound is a better fit with New England, though oceongraphicslly you could include them with the rest of the area in the mid atlantic.

best answer is probably that most, but not all, of this sub forum is in the mid Atlantic.

[bluewave]

59 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

we're becoming a much snowier atlanta

Essentially, one of the snowiest humid subtropical zones in North America during the 2010's.

[doncat]

88° high temp today with the onshore flow.

[Drz1111]

25 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Essentially, one of the snowiest humid subtropical zones in North America during the 2010's.

FWIW, the snowiest humid subtropical climates in North America are in the Appalachians south of PA.  West WVA foothills up to around 1500 feet or so in particular - they get around 60” of snow a year because they benefit from lake effect and get clipped by coastals.

[SnoSki14]

2 hours ago, winterwarlock said:

93 for my high today...3rd day in a row at 93....dont know why mets were going with lower numbers for today in the mid to upper 80s on tv.....I told you guys a few days ago numbers would be higher than what they are forecasting...I am skeptical as well whether it will truly be as cool as low to mid 70s this weekend, especially after the mets busted last weekend as well

Models are always too high with temps during strong onshore flow periods (one of the only times where they are), I wouldn't be shocked to see us stuck in the 60s for 2 days. 

[SACRUS]

9 - 5

PHL: 95
TEB: 95
New Bnwck: 94
TTN: 93
LGA: 91
EWR: 91
ACY: 90
BLM: 89
NYC: 89
JFK: 87
ISP: 86

[SACRUS]

Recods for Thu Sep 6 all look safe but could be close in LGA and PHL.

 

ACY: 98 (1983)
NYC: 97 (1881)
LGA: 94 (1983)
EWR: 97 (1983)
TTN: 99 (1983)
PHL: 95 (1983)
JFK: 94 (1961)
ISP:  90 (1985)

[SACRUS]

Beyond tomorrow - onshore flow nearby front cloudyvillle Fri - Mon, before more warmth Tue (9/11) - Thu (9/13) ahead of any tropical influence.  Lets see if temps over perform those days.

[SACRUS]

3 hours ago, winterwarlock said:

93 for my high today...3rd day in a row at 93....dont know why mets were going with lower numbers for today in the mid to upper 80s on tv.....I told you guys a few days ago numbers would be higher than what they are forecasting...I am skeptical as well whether it will truly be as cool as low to mid 70s this weekend, especially after the mets busted last weekend as well

It'll mostly be dependent on any sunshine those days (Fri - Mon) Sat could see longer periods of clearing and temps would jump into the low 80s if not low 70s like we had Aug 19-21

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

1 hour ago, SACRUS said:

Recods for Thu Sep 6 all look safe but could be close in LGA and PHL.

 

ACY: 98 (1983)
NYC: 97 (1881)
LGA: 94 (1983)
EWR: 97 (1983)
TTN: 99 (1983)
PHL: 95 (1983)
JFK: 94 (1961)
ISP:  90 (1985)

I’m assuming that super impressive NYC 97 is from that incredible and sustained heatwave that killed a ton of people. That was the 1800s equivalent of one of our stuck patterns. Unc posted some great stuff on that a couple years ago. I would have to imagine we see something like that but more intense some time in the next few years Northern Europe had that this summer. Where records are just crushed. 

I’ll call it the forky pattern 

[Isotherm]

6 hours ago, NewYorkweatherfan said:

Tough question. I’d say in between. But it’s neither.

 

The most precise answer to the inquiry is that NYC is in the Northeast, and also Mid-Atlantic, which partially overlaps the Northeast (think of it as a Venn diagram). Every definition I have seen indicates PA and NJ northeastward are Northeast. However, states like DE, MD, and more often, Virginia, are sometimes not considered Northeast, but they are Mid-Atlantic. I've seen some classify VA as Southeast (if so, VA is Mid Atlantic and Southeast). Regardless, these are strictly geographical designations. Our region is both Mid-Atlantic (northern) and the Northeast, as the larger umbrella region. 

[Rtd208]

Current temp 77/DP 73/RH 82%

High for the day yesterday was 92

[NortheastPAWx]

The humidity looks to return again early next week.

[CIK62]

The next 8 days averaging 75degs., or about 5degs. AN.

[SACRUS]

Some low level clouds need to disperse then off to the races.

 

DT's are oppressive again

 

[SACRUS]

Looking ahead next shot at heat (widespread 90s) may be tue-thu next week.  With enough sun  those days ahead of any tropical influence from FLorence, i'd expect temps to over perform.  As for the weekend doesnt look like a washout by any means but plenty of clouds and onshore flow will keep it cool.  How much cloudiness yet to be determined.  Reminds me of the Aug 19-21 period.

[dWave]

7 hours ago, Isotherm said:

 

The most precise answer to the inquiry is that NYC is in the Northeast, and also Mid-Atlantic, which partially overlaps the Northeast (think of it as a Venn diagram). Every definition I have seen indicates PA and NJ northeastward are Northeast. However, states like DE, MD, and more often, Virginia, are sometimes not considered Northeast, but they are Mid-Atlantic. I've seen some classify VA as Southeast (if so, VA is Mid Atlantic and Southeast). Regardless, these are strictly geographical designations. Our region is both Mid-Atlantic (northern) and the Northeast, as the larger umbrella region. 

This is how I always thought of it. The confusion stems from people thinking that Northeast and Mid Atlantic are mutually exclusive.