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Confidence increases for coastal storm threat along Eastern Seaboard


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31 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Should be a great airmass for you guys down south for this storm... fourth day below zero up here and averaging -25 departures for 3 days now, a 4th coming today.

if you want a coastal snowstorm this time of year, get NNE below zero and you're good to go.

Yep and the N wind here last night was insane. WTH did that come from

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1 hour ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

upton doing the same. Expected snowfall of 16” but 11-15” forecast range. Early morning whiskey.

Yeah expected snowfall of 16" here too, talk about selling that number. I'm worried even cutting that in half might still be too much. Confluence for the loss?

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I think there will be more of a Northeast/Southwest gradient with this. I'm not really buying what the 0z euro is selling, and especially not the 6z RGEM. I think there's a clear trend for UL heights increasing over eastern New England with time...Dare I say the 6z NAM seems quite reasonable in terms of track and H5 capture. I think this will capture at H5 later than current guidance consensus as the flow transitions from slow and meridional, to more progressive over the east coast. With H5 cutting off so early, it seems we could have a similar situation as the previous two systems where there isn't a clean capture, but instead a kick NE/NNE before capture. The SLP track close to the coast and then quickly NNE/NE towards the cape seems quite reasonable to me given the recent storms we've seen this year and the flip in the tele's...

Separately, surface temps today definitely don't scream suppression in my backyard... Probably get into the low 40's here today...

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17 minutes ago, EastonSN+ said:

NWS just upped amounts for CT on point and click and maps. They have to be weighing EURO less in their blend. EURO is only 6 to 8 in the area.

StormTotalSnowWeb1.thumb.png.02104d0603455d4de64c53ef4e35423f.png

This is what I mean with the Euro lately....never used to do this before the upgrade.  Did this last week with the Burp run where it took a lot of the precip away with one run...only to bring it back on the next.  Forecast offices are starting to not factor it as much it seems when it goes and does this.  I hope they are right cuz this would be a nice storm for us here with the cold in place...best airmass of all 4 March Nor'Easters here with this one...so bring the QPF.

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4 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

I think there will be more of a Northeast/Southwest gradient with this. I'm not really buying what the 0z euro is selling, and especially not the 6z RGEM. I think there's a clear trend for UL heights increasing over eastern New England with time...Dare I say the 6z NAM seems quite reasonable in terms of track and H5 capture. I think this will capture at H5 later than current guidance consensus as the flow transitions from slow and meridional, to more progressive over the east coast. With H5 cutting off so early, it seems we could have a similar situation as the previous two systems where there isn't a clean capture, but instead a kick NE/NNE before capture. The SLP track close to the coast and then quickly NNE/NE towards the cape seems quite reasonable to me given the recent storms we've seen this year and the flip in the tele's...

Separately, surface temps today definitely don't scream suppression in my backyard... Probably get into the low 40's here today...

Makes sense..Meteorology not Modelology.  And it fits the set up.  

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10 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

This is what I mean with the Euro lately....never used to do this before the upgrade.  Did this last week with the Burp run where it took a lot of the precip away with one run...only to bring it back on the next.  Forecast offices are starting to not factor it as much it seems when it goes and does this.  I hope they are right cuz this would be a nice storm for us here with the cold in place...best airmass of all 4 March Nor'Easters here with this one...so bring the QPF.

Agreed.

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12 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

This is what I mean with the Euro lately....never used to do this before the upgrade.  Did this last week with the Burp run where it took a lot of the precip away with one run...only to bring it back on the next.  Forecast offices are starting to not factor it as much it seems when it goes and does this.  I hope they are right cuz this would be a nice storm for us here with the cold in place...best airmass of all 4 March Nor'Easters here with this one...so bring the QPF.

Ask BTV how it worked out tossing the euro. Bad idea.

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12 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I haven't noticed this? Seems like maybe you mean those deformation bands getting farther NW?

Correct.

Last storm Hartford east was in the 6+ according to the EURO. That line ended up being approx. 35 miles west in reality. I ended up with 9.5 and closer to the NY boarder than Hartford.

Jan 5th EURO had me on the western edge of the accumulating snow. The western Edge ended up being over NYC.

 

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I'm not sure all that was said since yesterday in this thread ... 

I wasn't impressed on whole/average with the runs since yesterday.  The 00z NAM was impressive, but the other models did not follow suit nearly enough for me to succumb to typical NAM guile wrt to systems interacting with the interface of the Atlantic/continent at 42 hours .. a typical amplitude look that seems to materialize with that model around that region, and that time frame. 

The RGEM is smearing out the surface low and failing to coalesce back west now as of 06z - two schools of thought with that: 

a, the model is having trouble resolving convection/height modulations out at sea ... when having to simultaneously manage a trough evolution back closer to the coast that is actually only middling intensity. It's using the the convective processes (it looks like to me) to carve a new region(s) of forcing farther east.  That then does two things ...one, new forcing in that region closes a new surface wave; two, said new wave then "robs" the one associated with the "real" trough back closer to the coast ... and the whole thing ends up a mess.  The Euro did something very similar, it would appear.    

b, the models is/are correct in their handling, in essence ... 

The NAM's 00z solution was less gullible to the convective sequencing and appeared to focus entirely with the western envelope ...hugging the low closer to the mid level centers.  The 06z split the difference and appears to be about mid way between the 00z/06z RGEM/00z Euro thinking, with stress evident and weaker western solution and some shearing and new tendencies seaward. 

The problem is, much of this could be true.  The physics in the models don't 'make things up' that are outside theoretical plausibility .. I could argue that the western solutions are more likely because that's where the traditional mid level mechanics/closing at sigma levels and all that is transpiring, however... given to the middling mechanical power therein, does sort of lend to a system that is prone to perturbation - such as convective nodes and so forth.   I could argue the former and latter evenly ...so, after all that, ... my conclusion is I'm not sure which way to go at the moment.  

Part of the problem with this system's is that for the last couple of days worth of modeling et al, its story line appears to be told between the RAOBs... There has been this really predictable oscillation with the NAM (for example), when comparing the 3 and 6 -hourly intervals across successive runs, to be weaker then returning to stronger ..back and forth, like sloshing estimates by the model. A little stronger, we get back west with a deeper solution that pummels in the K.U. fashion... 06 and 18z runs come along and it's weaker ...trimming back QPF and duration...etc.  

Seeing the Euro go sheared with the surface low ... and also, it's 'panache' in the the mid levels looks smaller and pallid compared to previous runs (perhaps lending to the former because of - ), this close into the event... pains me to have to say, but a mid-grade system on a K.U. trajectory might be the best description for this thing .. Unless of course we can prove that these model poorly initialized?   10" ...maybe 15" in max areas, with many less than that ...impressive, less memorable. For those regions farther down deeper in the M/A (than NJ) that do get affected, it may stick out more so for their annuls and lore, simply by comparison to the rest of the season - I dunno.

Perhaps the 'between the RAOBs' musing above may bring it all back to coherent impact at 12z. I think we've had other events in this active period that required unusually short lead time corrections, too.  

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6 minutes ago, EastonSN+ said:

Correct.

Last storm Hartford east was in the 6+ according to the EURO. That line ended up being approx. 35 miles west in reality. I ended up with 9.5 and closer to the NY boarder than Hartford.

Jan 5th EURO had me on the western edge of the accumulating snow. The western Edge ended up being over NYC.

 

Euro has been notoriously se with qpf and it started with the Jan 2016 MA blizzard. And it’s not just deform band related either. 

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OKX gone wild...I def wouldn't be comfortable going 15" for NYC. Is there any guidance outside of the NAM that gives that much? Maybe RGEM I guess.

 

That said, I wouldn't completely rule it out either...there's a good deformation/ML signal from there and it goes right into SNE too.

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