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March 12th - 13th Scraper


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5 minutes ago, weatherbear5 said:

It's not really further apart per say. It's too early to call at 30 hrs.

however, looking forward we need to watch the orientation of the northern stream. Looks more NW to SE as opposed to 12/18z which appeared to have more of a N/S component

Yep. The 18Z GFS also had the same issue as well. We'll see how this run turns out, but I'm not liking that development.

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Just now, Ace said:

Yep. The 18Z GFS also had the same issue as well. We'll see how this run turns out, but I'm not liking that development.

A more negatively tilted trough would be better primed to capture the deepening storm rather than act as a kicker... I don't think that's an issue. The real problem I see through Monday morning is the much less impressive western ridge.

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1 minute ago, Juliancolton said:

A more negatively tilted trough would be better primed to capture the deepening storm rather than act as a kicker... I don't think that's an issue. The real problem I see through Monday morning is the much less impressive western ridge.

That's not what I meant. We are seeing a Northern Stream sort that is less sharper thereby orienting itself NW/SE. I agree with you that we want it to capture the Southern Stream instead of kicking it out.. Honestly I believe that reason that its less sharper is because the block over eastern Canada is less impressive this run. The Western ridge being less amplified also has an effect as well.

 

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Look at eastern Canada. Block is weaker and less expansive, letting the Northern Steam to be less sharp. Western Ridge does not look that different to me. Also there is a bit more confluence in SE Canada. Small changes can lead to vastly different results. Considering the complex setup we have, it will be model mayhem for awhile.

nam_z500_vort_namer_fh42_trend.gif

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Just now, Ace said:

Look at eastern Canada. Block is weaker and less expansive, letting the Northern Steam be less sharp. Western Ridge does not look that different to me. Small changes can lead to vastly different results. Considering the complex setup we have, it will be model mayhem for awhile.

The axis and amplitude are similar, but the 570 and 576mb isohypes sunk south about 200 miles each. There's definitely less mass depicted in that part of the atmosphere vs 18z.

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3 minutes ago, Ace said:

Look at eastern Canada. Block is weaker and less expansive, letting the Northern Steam to be less sharp. Western Ridge does not look that different to me. Small changes can lead to vastly different results. Considering the complex setup we have, it will be model mayhem for awhile.

nam_z500_vort_namer_fh42_trend.gif

The NAM wants to pop the main surface low well to the east of the main upper-air energy, which just seems meteorologically wrong.

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Nowcasting time fellas.  It probably won’t be long before current radar / qpf starts overperforming in the Southeast , then what’s indicated on the models.

its been like this with every major storm in our area lately...not getting a handle until the very end...and then still underperforming on 6 hour forecasts , when it’s already here.  

No model really painted over 2” qpf for nnj...all those areas got 2 feet.  It also moved away from the area about 3 to 4 hours slower than expected. 

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6 minutes ago, Juliancolton said:

The axis and amplitude are similar, but the 570 and 576mb isohypes sunk south about 200 miles each. There's definitely less mass depicted in that part of the atmosphere vs 18z.

You're right. I was looking more at the top of the ridge. Won't take much to have a reversal back to a sharper Northern Stream shortwave, but it is concerning the GFS and now the Nam are signaling a flatter shortwave.

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6 minutes ago, Wetbulbs88 said:

You can tell by how much the low jumps around on the 3k that it really doesn't have a handle on this yet. 

I think the 3k is just prone to do that in general as well. Rgem still looks like a miss from black and white maps, but maybe improved from 18z

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25 minutes ago, F5TornadoF5 said:

I think the 3k is just prone to do that in general as well. Rgem still looks like a miss from black and white maps, but maybe improved from 18z

The Rgem is definitely more NW with the low through 48 hours, but there is less interaction between the two streams. Seems to be the trend early on for the 0Z suite.

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