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January 11-13 Winter Storm


Hoosier

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Just now, buckeye said:

there really is no true concensus of where the heaviest axis(or plural), set up.   This really is going to be a nowcast wrt jackpots and lollipops

This, to me, is incredible. IMO, it's an indication that despite such amazing technology, meteorology and forecasting has such a long way to go. And do not take this the wrong way, I am not bashing the science or the people behind it. I am saying that despite such amazing computer modeling, data, etc, storms like this STILL can be a shot in the dark, and I think in the age we are in, that thought sometimes leaves people at a loss. 

That said, I'm ready to nowcast. I could honestly see this going either way. There has been such a strong un-ignorable eastward trend, but if we get a westward wobble, I wouldn't be surprised.

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2 minutes ago, geddyweather said:

This, to me, is incredible. IMO, it's an indication that despite such amazing technology, meteorology and forecasting has such a long way to go. And do not take this the wrong way, I am not bashing the science or the people behind it. I am saying that despite such amazing computer modeling, data, etc, storms like this STILL can be a shot in the dark, and I think in the age we are in, that thought sometimes leaves people at a loss. 

That said, I'm ready to nowcast. I could honestly see this going either way. There has been such a strong un-ignorable eastward trend, but if we get a westward wobble, I wouldn't be surprised.

Without straying too much into politics...if our government had the proper respect for science, we COULD invest more into increasing our observation areas in the currently very sparse areas for data.  This would genuinely help with our forecast modeling.  But off my soapbox.  

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1 hour ago, JayPSU said:

Without straying too much into politics...if our government had the proper respect for science, we COULD invest more into increasing our observation areas in the currently very sparse areas for data.  This would genuinely help with our forecast modeling.  But off my soapbox.  

You can always get better, and what you suggest would help to some extent.  I think people sometimes have unrealistic expectations.  Fact is, modeling will never achieve total perfection given what is currently known about mathematics (even then, there would only be so many data/observation points being input). Maybe it's not great from a public relations perspective, but as a weather hobbyist, I am glad that every detail is not known in advance.  It would get boring if it were 100% predictable each and every time.

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My guess at what's happening is the models all shifted way SE as the energy got sampled and the northern stream's stronger influence became evident.  Now that that's resolved, we still have time for some modest NW bump that inevitably occurs when a dynamic/moisture laden setup develops a low deeper than the longer range models.  The HRRRx is a huge hit along and just NW of I-71...I didn't see the QPF but it probably has lollis of over a foot.  That's more aggressive than I would be, but this may be an interesting forecast down to the end.  Mildly optimistic for MBY. 

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Not surprisingly, the models are too slow with the temperature drop behind the front.  For example, the HRRR/RAP had Moline at 44 degrees, but it's already down to 38.   The obvious implications are a slight speed up of flash freeze conditions and a changeover to ice where precip occurs.

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uk appears to have moved west with a low just east of Pittsburgh.    Precip maps look good for OH but hard to tell without seeing between panels.
The 48 hour HRRR unloads on us. Solid 6-12 right up Cincy Dayton Columbus. Can't say I've used the 48 hr hrrr before lol

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, Snowstorms said:

You sure you don't want to hold out a bit of hope till 0z. Only partial sampling through 12z today. :lol: 

The difference 50 miles can make. 

I'm not expecting a major snowfall for the GTA, but if things go right, then we could see 2-4". The 12Z UKMET moved in the right direction. As others have stated, it's going to be a nowcast situation. 

On a smaller scale, the snowfall last month on the Saturday before Christmas (Dec. 23) wasn't solidified until 12z Friday Dec. 22. Same with the Christmas Eve snowfall. It came down to the last minute.

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11 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Not surprisingly, the models are too slow with the temperature drop behind the front.  For example, the HRRR/RAP had Moline at 44 degrees, but it's already down to 38.   The obvious implications are a slight speed up of flash freeze conditions and a changeover to ice where precip occurs.

Yup, I've just transitioned from IP to snow, like 2 or 3 hours ahead of schedule.

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3 minutes ago, NWLinnCountyIA said:

Yup, I've just transitioned from IP to snow, like 2 or 3 hours ahead of schedule.

Just so nobody reading my other post takes it the wrong way... it looks like the actual front/wind shift is located about where it should be.  It's just that the cold air is coming in faster once you're behind it.

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2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Just so nobody reading my other post takes it the wrong way... it looks like the actual front/wind shift is located about where it should be.  It's just that the cold air is coming in faster once you're behind it.

Yea, the gradient itself is steeper at the surface for sure, and maybe aloft too? Most guidance didn't have snow here until after 1pm.

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7 minutes ago, Toronto4 said:

I'm not expecting a major snowfall for the GTA, but if things go right, then we could see 2-4". The 12Z UKMET moved in the right direction. As others have stated, it's going to be a nowcast situation. 

On a smaller scale, the snowfall last month on the Saturday before Christmas (Dec. 23) wasn't solidified until 12z Friday Dec. 22. Same with the Christmas Eve snowfall. It came down to the last minute.

I agree that 2" is still possible. This is very much a nowcasting event. I remember when a storm made a sudden shift in either February or March 2001.

This very much reminds me of the December 30 , 1997. 30 cm (12") forecast the day before only for Toronto to get a dusting and Kingston, Ontario getting pounded. In a way that was the biggest bust I've experienced from 24 hours out.

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