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Jan 4th Coastal


showmethesnow

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We are now seeing a weak closed low at 500 and a strong one at 700 mb just off of OBX stacked. Again, I haven't looked at the surface but these would suggest we are in the process of seeing the capture of the surface low irregardless of what may be depicted on the surface.

eta: This is what we want to see!

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Its fun I guess to look at the NAM outside of its useful range. But I mean, who cares if it looks crappy at the surface?
Like I said yesterday, we have the EURO- and as long as it doesn't take a step in the wrong direction, there is some reason for optimism.
Seems like the nam is creeping more and more north each run before getting kicked out to sea

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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Just now, C.A.P.E. said:

Its fun I guess to look at the NAM outside of its useful range. But I mean, who cares if it looks crappy at the surface?

Like I said yesterday, we have the EURO- and as long as it doesn't take a step in the wrong direction, there is some reason for optimism.

I didn’t even go back to check last night..it must have been ok..I took a break from weather last night

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3 minutes ago, nj2va said:

500 closes off but you can see the NS vort on it’s heels ready to kick it East. It’d be game on here if not for that I think.

Honestly I am not sure we should worry about it at this point. The timing on that has been so erratic from the NAM that it is making that follow up almost impossible to predict. The main thing is we see an initial decent clean phase and the upper levels are responding well to it.

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1 minute ago, Ji said:

Seems like the nam is creeping more and more north each run before getting kicked out to sea

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

It does wonky stuff at this range. I really couldn't care less what it thinks is going to occur at this point, good or bad.

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Honestly I am not sure we should worry about it at this point. The timing on that has been so erratic from the NAM that it is making that follow up almost impossible to predict. The main thing is we see an initial decent clean phase and the upper levels are responding well to it.


Certainly a way cleaner phase and better look. I loved seeing the closed 500 low as the upper levels respond. Hopefully a good start to the 12z suite.
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10 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

It does wonky stuff at this range. I really couldn't care less what it thinks is going to occur at this point, good or bad.

Yeah, I'm just keeping an eye on how it trends H5 inside 48 hrs. It has improved slightly each run at H5 since yesterday morning. I think it's kind of a weenie move to just throw it out completely after 48hrs but we all know it does weird stuff outside of that range. It will be interesting to see how the globals handle that last piece of energy diving out of the plains. NAM depicts it as a kicker. If we see that with the globals over the next 24 hrs we'll know if the NAM is on to something.  

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The real problem is the ns vort acting as a kicker. Trying to compare to Jan 2000 doesn't work for this reason. Our best hope would be to get clipped before the storm gets pushed east. My weenie mind has dreams of the rare instance of good snows in DC and Boston and the NYC snow hole. That permutation is on the table, albeit a remote chance. 

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1 hour ago, attml said:

I am sure we are all hoping for a shift west!

 

image.png.e231d234efa222a44e73658239b294bc.png

 

I know this will be updated in about an hour, but the 06z GGEM (above) made another shift that appears to follow the Euro.  Here's a close-up of the above map.  0.1" line now through Baltimore.

3QiuvYt.png

Also much less qpf for SNE.  If that keeps up, I'll feel pretty bad for them.  We all know how much it hurts to have the rug pulled out from under you.

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3 minutes ago, WeathermanB said:

Looks like the models are trending west for a bigger snowstorm for the Mid-Atlantic?

Mid Atlantic coast perhaps.  But we are certainly looking marginally better.  3K as mitch said gives some hope.  Need that same clean phase but just further west tick or two if we want some thing DC and west. But we are ticks if the NAM is to be believed.  

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1 minute ago, cae said:

I know this will be updated in about an hour, but the 06z GGEM (above) made another shift that appears to follow the Euro.  Here's a close-up of the above map.  0.1" line now through Baltimore.

3QiuvYt.png

Also much less qpf for SNE.  If that keeps up, I'll feel pretty bad for them.  We all know how much it hurts to have the rug pulled out from under you.

 

 

Judging on what i see for that map... My city in Magnolia DE gets almost a foot of snow and even more down south?

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It's closer I'll give it that but the fatal problem I still see and why even given the early phase and bomb on the nam it still misses is the northern stream (piece C) is diving down right on top of us. It phases later but that takes some time so for our purposes it acts as a kicker. It has too. The phase isn't going to stop time so that it can happen simultaneously and everything is progressing as this process is taking place. So if the trough is digging right over us...I don't see how this ends up tucked in like we need it. I guess why I've been so disengaged in this is that I see that as the most important thing. I want to see that dive down west of us. At least into Ohio if not Indiana. Not into PA. And while some of the changes with the stj wave and the first northern stream system have been favorable, I've seen no improvement in that final part. And absent that my fear is there is only so much this can go. We're seeing those other improvements with parts A & B help the Carolinas for sure and the Delmarva. But for west of the bay if that last northern stream piece keeps diving down on top of us it's going to hit a brick wall and turn east. It may or may not hook back in time for New England. Might even screw then. 

It would take an extremely rare almost perfectly clean immediate phase to tuck in tight enough given that trough axis or a sudden shift in that feature.  

If I see something start to change that last part of the equation I will immediately jump in. I want this. I'm just not feeling it as long as I keep seeing the trough diving in on top of us. 

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Just had a chance to look at the surface on the 12K NAM and this is why I take what it shows there with some skepticism and focus solely on the 500's. The surface seems some what fine all the way until we see it to just off of OBX. When this storm is located there we see it stacked all the way from 500 mb on down to the surface. Now this is where the surface goes somewhat wonky. We see the 500mb sliding up the coast and yet we see all the levels underneath including the surface taking a turn out to sea. While I expect a little tilt to the vertical stacking this is beyond that as it looks as if they are trying to escape. While possible I suppose, I do find this unlikely. The more likely outcome is that we see the 500mbs dragging the lower levels and the surface low along with it up the coast. 

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ROBABILISTIC HEAVY SNOW AND ICING DISCUSSION

NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD

317 AM EST MON JAN 01 2018

 

VALID 12Z MON JAN 01 2018 - 12Z THU JAN 04 2018

 

 

DAYS 1-3...

 

...SOUTHEAST/MID ATLANTIC...

 

ANOTHER ROUND OF WINTRY PRECIPITATION IS POSSIBLE WED/WED NIGHT AS

A WELL-DEFINED SHORTWAVE MOVES ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST...WITH

PRECIPITATION SPREADING WEST OF AN AREA OF LOW PRESSURE DEVELOPING

AND TRACKING NORTH FROM THE NORTHERN BAHAMAS ON WED.  THE ECMWF

AND 21Z SREF MEAN/18Z GEFS MEAN AND 12Z ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEAN SHOW A

TENTH TO A QUARTER INCH LIQUID EQUIVALENT IN THE FORM OF SNOW IN

SOUTHEAST GA AND THE EASTERN CAROLINAS..WITH A FEW FASTER ENSEMBLE

MEMBERS STREAKING PRECIP NORTH UP ALONG THE MID ATLANTIC COAST.

THE SAME SOLUTIONS ALSO SHOW A STRIPE OF FREEZING RAIN NEAR THE

COAST...MAKING FOR A TRICKY FORECAST REGARDING PRECIP TYPE.

THE 18-0Z NAM  INDICATED A HIGHER AMPLITUDE 700 MB WAVE THAN THE

OTHER MODELS/MEANS...RESULTING IN A STRONGER CYCLONE DEVELOPING

CLOSER TO THE COAST AND MORE PRECIP AND HIGHER AMOUNTS OF EACH

PRECIP TYPE.  THE TIGHT PRECIP GRADIENT ALONG THE SOUTHEAST AND

MID ATLANTIC COASTS COMBINES WITH PRECIP TYPE UNCERTAINTIES AND

NORTHERN/SOUTHERN STREAM PHASING DIFFERENCE TO RESULT IN A GREATER

THAN NORMAL LEVEL OF UNCERTAINTY.

 

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