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E PA/NJ/DE Winter 2017-18 OBS Thread


Rtd208

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3 hours ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

GFS OP has been very anti-snow for us lately. Here is accumulated snowfall thru December 22 as depicted on the 6z GFS OP. Really dislikes extreme SE PA.

 

gfs_asnow_neus_41.png

The long range euro has looked similar. The retro 80's look a time of many cold December's and if you saw 3 or 4" snow it was December to remember. 

What is not good is the dry weeklies 

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The GFS and NAM through 78 are significantly different in precip distribution. GFS brings light precip into only extreme S NJ. Even further SE than 6z which looked to be trending in the other direction. I still don't think this storm is set in stone. Obviously I would put more weight in the GFS at this time, but this is really the first significant event in the new pattern which is why I think we are seeing such a disparity in models. NAM does sometimes score a coup especially in this kind of situation where the pattern is just getting established. Will be interesting to see the CMC shortly to see if it holds serve from 00z. It looked almost identical to the 12z NAM.

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CMC holds serve from last run, in fact it came a bit further west. This would be a very solid event from the LV and south. 1-3" N and W burbs, 3-5" from bucks county and south to the del river with 3 more common to the north and 5 more common to the river. Then 5-8" for most of SNJ if temps hold. So right now we have the NAM and CMC in the further west camp this weekend with the CMC being the furthest west solution and the NAM getting much of SE PA in the game. Also the NAVGEM continues to be the furthest west of all the models which is usually the furthest SE as Ralph has pointed out. Then we have the GFS trending further away. Will be interesting to see UKMET and EURO if these make any changes. If EURO holds with a non event, it is hard to bet against the GFS and EURO but they have folded before... This could be a storm that sees dramatic shifts even within 48 hours due to the set up.

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The CMC and GFS begin to diverge after hour 24. CMC has precip further north and west than the GFS at every frame after that. We would have a pretty good idea which one is verifying better tomorrow morning. It's pretty crazy the uncertainty for 48 hours out in parts of the south. GFS says nothing for basically anyone besides the mountain peaks while the CMC gives northern miss/bama/Ga into NC and TN a pretty significant accumulating snow event. NAM is in between those 2 solutions but would still be some accumulating snow for a large part of the south. And this is less than 48 hours out for them. How that verifies should give us a good idea of which way this storm is leaning.

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5 minutes ago, RedSky said:

I wish CMC wasn't a bad model, actually i don't know what a good model is anymore after last winters euro blizzard bust

 

CMC was one of the only models to call the warm layer cutting into snow totals for our area in that storm. Both CMC and NAM showed significantly less frozen than the other models and we threw them out because "it's GFS and Euro under 48 hours both saying blizzard...what could go wrong?"

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so it's now UK/CMC/EPS/NAM/NAVGEM/SREF'S vs GFS/EURO. 12z Euro is big. UKmet used to show which way the euro would trend but last year that wasn't the case at all. Hate to say it but this 12z euro run has Grinch/Dr.No written all over it. It would be surprising to see the Euro shift towards the other globals. I'm thinking small tick at best. We'll see...

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1 minute ago, The Iceman said:

so it's now UK/CMC/EPS/NAM/NAVGEM/SREF'S vs GFS/EURO. 12z Euro is big. UKmet used to show which way the euro would trend but last year that wasn't the case at all. Hate to say it but this 12z euro run has Grinch/Dr.No written all over it. It would be surprising to see the Euro shift towards the other globals. I'm thinking small tick at best. We'll see...

TBH wasn't expecting this to trend west even though we so often see it. The Ukie usually serves as a guide to what the Euro may show which is nice. If the Euro trends towards or even jumps to a huge run, its only the GFS left on its own. Getting a little excited right now, mostly because I haven't seen December snow in a couple years.

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2 minutes ago, LVblizzard said:

GFS and CMC ensembles are both still east. This threat certainly isn't dead yet but we'll need a significant shift west from the Euro today to really start taking this threat seriously.

Haven't the GEFS been proven to always follow the OP? Not sure about the GEPS as I don't typically look at them, or the GGEM for that matter.

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