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Early Winter Banter, Observations & General Discussion 2017


powderfreak

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

The irony is that the wind usually makes totals less for those who know what they are doing. Wind really compacts. And Greg is wrong about Plympton. They did not come close to jacking. I lived nearby. Look at the radar. The best stuff was SE of them. Plympton flirted with more banded stuff near dawn while the Cape got crushed. The Plympton dude needs to up his ruler a bot. I saw that total too.

You might be correct about the Plympton report though.  They looked like they were on the fringe while off to the southeast of that was heavier. I will give you that one. I'm also very familiar with compaction due to wind.  But when snow is fluffy, you or anybody should refrain from measuring every six hours especially in long duration storms.

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

I had like 26" there. We had a weird period for a few hours where the precip was more banded.  The Cape had about 8-10 more in Osterville.

and you just proved another point for which i have long been heckled on here....this is the difference between what i had in feb 13 vs much of ct 22 vs 32 etc

of course to any snow weenie or wx fanatic worth his/her salt it's crazy noticeable and a big deal

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1 minute ago, Greg said:

You might be correct about the Plympton report though.  They looked like they were on the fringe while off to the southeast of that was heavier. I will give you that one. I'm also very familiar with compaction due to wind.  But when snow is fluffy, you or anybody should refrain from measuring every six hours especially in long duration storms.

That's not how it works though. I know the NWS has COCORAHs rules too...but some of those are head scratchers when it comes to melting and ptype. 

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On December 8, 2017 at 0:13 PM, Typhoon Tip said:

If anyone is interested  ...

We are fast approaching the Silver 25th anniversary of a top 10 coastal winter storm event that unleashed it's fury spanning December 10th -12th, 1992.  

Not sure what this social media's demographic is, but...considering that age, there may be a lot of users that were not even born ...as there are also users who may annul that event among their more cherished, coveted memories as both enthusiasts and/or scientists in the field of Weather.  

I half wanted to start an appreciation thread, ...but honestly ...wasn't sure the attention span would make that worth while - it's not a knock. But 25 years is getting to be rather dated - us old salts of New England climate must grudgingly admit :/  

Anyway, what started out as a run-of-the-mill late autumn/early winter Nor'easter forecast, replete with some wind and coastal concerns, along with uncertainties for snowfall outside of elevations, turned out to be a historic tempest that unleashed snow amounts over 30 " in the interior, tapering to a foot or more on the coastal plain (AFTER those eastern zones had already registered some 3-5" of rain in the gauges!). As well, wind damage and massive coastal flood concerns and monetary losses incurred from New England all the way down along the NJ coasts ... This storm spanning up to two full days to completely run its course.  

Truly a top three lifetime event for this particular Meteorologist.  25 years ago ... beginning two days from now. 

I was living in Philly. It was a windswept rain ending as some snow showers. The Jersey Coast took a beating. In fact, I believe it was some of the worst flooding in NYC until Sandy. I remember scenes of floodwaters swamping some subways

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20 minutes ago, codfishsnowman said:

the whole wiping the board thing is a little suspicious anyways for any storm regardless of what nws says, i think up to a few inches is fine but like 1/15 eastern sne blizzard there were lots of 30 inch totals but peak depths 20-22 due to long duration and compacting....at what point does that get out of control??

umm I don't think this is the case .. at least in my area snow depth just from the blizzard was 30"+ .. but also I was in the Jackpot zone with ~3' total 

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

That's not how it works though. I know the NWS has COCORAHs rules too...but some of those are head scratchers when it comes to melting and ptype. 

Take my word for it. I don't really believe the machines/COCORAHS.  I'd rather hear it from a human spotter any day.

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Just now, CoastalWx said:

That's not how it works though. I know the NWS has COCORAHs rules too...but some of those are head scratchers when it comes to melting and ptype. 

there are some issues with all the big events...dec 2003, feb 2003 etc but whatever...i do think things overall are getting better in regards to box screening out junk totals though

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1 minute ago, Greg said:

Take my word for it. I don't really believe the machines/COCORAHS.  I'd rather hear it from a human spotter any day.

 

Just now, codfishsnowman said:

there are some issues with all the big events...dec 2003, feb 2003 etc but whatever...i do think things overall are getting better in regards to box screening out junk totals though

Oh the filtering is good..or better anyways. I mean the rules that would state you getting 0.0" if it melted during the day,  since they now said do not clear board.

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5 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

 

Oh the filtering is good..or better anyways. I mean the rules that would state you getting 0.0" if it melted during the day,  since they now said do not clear board.

I think if it melts on contact during the day, then you should put it down as a trace "T". But if it snows 2" then rains and melts it, then another 2" comes down; you put down you got 4" of snowfell  that day but only a depth of about 2" to show for it.  That is a little different scinario here.

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Holy crap you guys, it is Armageddon at the Buffalo game. Complete and total whiteout with wicked winds...i have no idea how they are playing football. 

 

I guess the upside of living near the canal, I don't really need to watch anything until Mid Jan. Climo is mainly rain for my area for a while. Glad you guys have something to track

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4 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

Holy crap you guys, it is Armageddon at the Buffalo game. Complete and total whiteout with wicked winds...i have no idea how they are playing football. 

 

I guess the upside of living near the canal, I don't really need to watch anything until Mid Jan. Climo is mainly rain for my area for a while. Glad you guys have something to track

I wish I could see it 

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Anyone have more knowledge than me on PT wood and metal roofing panels? I’m using those 5 rib Fabral panels with PT 2x4s underneath for purlins in my chicken run. I’m reading that copper PT is very corrosive to the panels and fasteners, but I’m using the Lowes lumber with Ecolife treatment...apparently that is a nonmetallic treatment method. I assume I’m fine? 

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22 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Oh the filtering is good..or better anyways. I mean the rules that would state you getting 0.0" if it melted during the day,  since they now said do not clear board.

Minor correction: while we are recommending only one measurement a day now, it is supposed to be maximum accumulation of new snowfall before melting or settling has occurred.

So if you report at 7 AM, and the snow stops at 7 PM the night before, you measure as close to 7 PM as possible and report that number.

Also, the toughest example in the book, if snow accumulates, melts, accumulates again: You report the maximum snowfall before melting/settling still. So 2" that melts, followed by 1" that melts again (or sticks for that matter) is reported as 3" for the day.

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6 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

Minor correction: while we are recommending only one measurement a day now, it is supposed to be maximum accumulation of new snowfall before melting or settling has occurred.

So if you report at 7 AM, and the snow stops at 7 PM the night before, you measure as close to 7 PM as possible and report that number.

Also, the toughest example in the book, if snow accumulates, melts, accumulates again: You report the maximum snowfall before melting/settling still. So 2" that melts, followed by 1" that melts again (or sticks for that matter) is reported as 3" for the day.

Thanks. That makes more sense. I remember a few people fired about my example.  Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t first order stations do it every 6 hours?

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