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powderfreak

NNE Fall Thread

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2" of the densest snow possible at the base area... this stuff is like sand.

No upslope fluff here...like walking on a beach.  The plow piles are substantial for a couple inches of snow.

Nov_17.jpg.004cde9a540f35551c8b9f1d4f38980c.jpg

 

Tough shoveling that stuff

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Event totals: 1.4” Snow/0.47” L.E.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 1.4 inches

New Liquid: 0.19 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 7.4

Snow Density: 13.6% H2O

Temperature: 29.5 F

Sky: Light Snow/Graupel (3-4 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 1.5 inches

 

Snow started mixing in at our place down at 500’ in the 11:00 – 11:30 P.M. range, and changed over fully at some point during the night.  We picked up about two tenths of an inch of liquid as snow, and almost another three tenths as rain/mix, meaning there was roughly a half inch of total liquid from the event.  It was pouring at times during the evening before the precipitation changed over down at our elevation, so I have to think Bolton Valley up above us must have picked up at least a couple more inches.  I’m interested in seeing what they report today, but they’re still in preseason mode so I’m not sure when we’ll get to hear about the totals up there.  I thought we might be getting upslope-type snow out of this with respect to density, but this was pretty substantial at over 12% H2O.

 

Checking my seasonal snow data, we were lagging a bit behind average snowfall pace for a few days there, but this event has put things right back on track.  We’ll see how things go moving forward, but there appears to be a chance for some snow with this next system, and we’re also approaching the last third of the month, where snowfall chances ramp up a bit more.

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34 minutes ago, alex said:

Haven't gone out to measure yet but looks like about an inch here overnight, with light snow now. Same thing here - very tiny grains, almost sand-like. 

are you planning on reporting your snow events?

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I’ve gathered the available snow totals for this storm from the Vermont ski areas, and the north to south listing is below.  Accumulations tapered off to the south as is common with these types of setups, although the Killington area did seem to have some decent accumulations that bucked the trend a bit.

 

Jay Peak: 5”

Stowe: 4”

Bolton Valley: 3”

Sugarbush: 2”

Killington: 4.5”

Okemo: 1.5”

Stratton: T”

Mount Snow: 0”

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1st measurable snow of the season - only 0.1" but there was still some on our cold gravel road this morning.  Alas, it was also our 1st 33F rain event; that was yesterday's max.

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58 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

are you planning on reporting your snow events?

What do you mean exactly by "reporting?" I keep a log, but I'm not as meticulous about it as JSpin... 

This is what I have so far this year (note: I code "T" as 0.001, so I can get totals easily):

10-Nov    2
11-Nov    0.25
13-Nov    0.5
15-Nov    0.001
16-Nov    0.5
17-Nov    1
 

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20 minutes ago, alex said:

What do you mean exactly by "reporting?" I keep a log, but I'm not as meticulous about it as JSpin... 

This is what I have so far this year (note: I code "T" as 0.001, so I can get totals easily):

10-Nov    2
11-Nov    0.25
13-Nov    0.5
15-Nov    0.001
16-Nov    0.5
17-Nov    1
 

I meant entering in on the snow table on here.

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Yea, nothing measurable or even noticeable till you passed Williston. Then some light white here and there. Richmond had about .5" ....really bad snow growth. Moisture was pretty decent. Somewhere between NAM and GFS levels ...just straight rods and no dendrites.  Never quite got into that -10c air with moisture saturation. 

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1 hour ago, wxeyeNH said:

Lava, can you give me the snow table link?  I did't do it last year but maybe I will this year.

got .75" snow yesterday AM before switch then dusting last night. Season I'm at 2"

I'm happy to join the table party! Do take my measurements with a grain of salt though... I'm not always around to measure in person, so there's some estimating going on. Although with 2 kids on the way (adoption! We should have them by mid-December) I'll probably be around a lot more. :)

Snow has picked up a bit but still light enough not to amount to anything beyond the 1" we got overnight

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47 minutes ago, alex said:

I'm happy to join the table party! Do take my measurements with a grain of salt though... I'm not always around to measure in person, so there's some estimating going on. Although with 2 kids on the way (adoption! We should have them by mid-December) I'll probably be around a lot more. :)

Snow has picked up a bit but still light enough not to amount to anything beyond the 1" we got overnight

No problem.  I tend to take everybody's snow measurements - including my own - with a grain, except perhaps J.Spin's, and even his frequent and precise-as-possible work is subject to the vagaries of how the stuff accumulates, especially in strong wind.

Lava, can you give me the snow table link?

It's in the OP of the 2017-18 NE snow table thread.

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Just now, tamarack said:

No problem.  I tend to take everybody's snow measurements - including my own - with a grain, except perhaps J.Spin's, and even his frequent and precise-as-possible work is subject to the vagaries of how the stuff accumulates, especially in strong wind.

Haha well stated. Send me the link and I will start posting!

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2 hours ago, wxeyeNH said:

Lava, can you give me the snow table link?  I did't do it last year but maybe I will this year.

got .75" snow yesterday AM before switch then dusting last night. Season I'm at 2"

 

 

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Alright, I sent Kevin a PM to get access! I didn't realize how much I missed on that thread about my location. :) I think now that I'm more active you all know where I am, but definitely not KHIE - the temps tend to run a bit colder during rad cooling nights but not much more, but they don't really get much at all in upslope setups. My total last year was 175 - not sure what JSpin's was but I imagine we fall short of that (and certainly well below the Stowe totals at the ski area). There were also questions about retention - it might not be as bad as some areas of VT, but we definitely don't retain too well - at least that was my experience last year. I know I talked to a few long time Bretton Woods skiers last year who said it was particularly bad for retention, and that some year the snow can get really deep, but certainly Pinkham Notch does much better in retention - but their upslope usually amounts to 4 flakes (I used to ski Wildcat and it would drive me nuts - they claim they get upslope, but it's always a dusting. Useless). 

Anyways... I'll get myself a ruler and try to be more accurate in my measurements!

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3 hours ago, adk said:

Yea, nothing measurable or even noticeable till you passed Williston. Then some light white here and there. Richmond had about .5" ....really bad snow growth. Moisture was pretty decent. Somewhere between NAM and GFS levels ...just straight rods and no dendrites.  Never quite got into that -10c air with moisture saturation. 

Yeah the snow growth was terrible.  Even down in Stowe where there's 0.5-1" depending on exactly where, but there are plow piles haha.  Some good moisture was there, just not the snow growth.  

We basically got an upslope sand event.  20:1 fluff and the 2-3" overnight goes to at least 4-6".

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It is nice to have the ground white again, even if you can see the grass blades poking through.  Very November type feel walking the dog on the Rec Path through town with the squeak of cold snow underfoot.

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My total last year was 175 - not sure what JSpin's was but I imagine we fall short of that (and certainly well below the Stowe totals at the ski area).

He finished at 186.5, 2nd highest (behind 2010-11.)   Things break right and you could end his 7-year dominance.  :lol:

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3 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah the snow growth was terrible.  Even down in Stowe where there's 0.5-1" depending on exactly where, but there are plow piles haha.  Some good moisture was there, just not the snow growth.  

We basically got an upslope sand event.  20:1 fluff and the 2-3" overnight goes to at least 4-6".

 

Yeah, the snow at my place was 7.4:1, and while some of that density was likely from the precipitation changeover, a lot of it was simply due to the density of the snow.  The good news is that the total liquid is really what matters – if we had roughly a half inch of liquid down at the house, the resorts probably had at least that much, which is fairly substantial.  We’ll have to see what this next system does to the snow though.

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3 hours ago, tamarack said:

My total last year was 175 - not sure what JSpin's was but I imagine we fall short of that (and certainly well below the Stowe totals at the ski area).

He finished at 186.5, 2nd highest (behind 2010-11.)   Things break right and you could end his 7-year dominance.  :lol:

Hehe, I doubt it, but I guess it could happen. I don't like competitions that I'm very unlikely to win! B) Looks like I'm ahead on the snow table at the moment just because of that first event where we got quite a bit more (relatively speaking, they were all small events), but I'm sure that will be lost with the first good upslope event when Stowe gets 15" and we get 5"! The only times we do REALLY well in the upslope is on a Northerly wind, like we got last year - I think late November or so, when we got about 20" (I'd have to look at my records), but it's a pretty rare setup, from what I understand. We get some on NW wind, but usually only 1/2 to 2/3 of what the Greens get (once again, just from memory, I haven't done any careful analysis). 

At the end of the day... who cares, just let it snow everywhere so everyone's happy!

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5 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I'll look forward to the weenie battles of fake snow that measures 8" at the end of the snowfall and collapses to 4", 3 hrs later.

Well, I'm not that dedicated to the battle, and that's why I was hesitant to start doing the snow table. I only measure once a day, so you'll have to deal with my deflated, collapsed, limp 4" totals. :huh:

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3 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I'll look forward to the weenie battles of fake snow that measures 8" at the end of the snowfall and collapses to 4", 3 hrs later.

Yes,  I get real snow and real cold.  Not that weenie upslope fluff but the staying power durable real deal.  Also not that fake radiational cooling lowest 50 feet of the atmosphere either.  Watch my CAD too, like this weekend.  Unless that low to the NW has real power I'll be stuck near 40F while areas around me bake well into the 40's or higher....

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8 minutes ago, alex said:

Well, I'm not that dedicated to the battle, and that's why I was hesitant to start doing the snow table. I only measure once a day, so you'll have to deal with my deflated, collapsed, limp 4" totals. :huh:

You guys get so defensive of the fluff. I'm kidding. 

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8 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

Yes,  I get real snow and real cold.  Not that weenie upslope fluff but the staying power durable real deal.  Also not that fake radiational cooling lowest 50 feet of the atmosphere either.  Watch my CAD too, like this weekend.  Unless that low to the NW has real power I'll be stuck near 40F while areas around me bake well into the 40's or higher....

Be nice to the fluffers.

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LOL - I wasn't being defensive of my upslope, I love upslope and don't care what anybody else thinks. Before moving to the Whites, I always skied Stowe because of their upslope - I just love watching snow fall, and upslope give you the highest frequency and highest probability of seeing snow on any given day. It might be fake snow but my ground is white from November to April most years... and that's good enough for me. :) I was just setting expectations that I won't be out there measuring every 3 hours to get the most accurate numbers, so take my measurements with a grain of salt!

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Event totals: 1.5” Snow/0.47” L.E.

 

Details from the 10:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.1 inches

New Liquid: Trace

Temperature: 21.9 F

Sky: Clear

Snow at the stake: 1.5 inches

 

There was a final tenth of an inch of snow today that fell after morning observations.  We’ve cleared out now (to a beautifully starry sky in the dry air), so this latest storm is definitely complete.  The 1.5” of snow we picked up was right in line with the 1-2” we had in our BTV NWS forecast.

 

Based on the forecast, it seems like the back side of this next system could have a bit of snow as well.

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2 hours ago, alex said:

Hehe, I doubt it, but I guess it could happen. I don't like competitions that I'm very unlikely to win! B) Looks like I'm ahead on the snow table at the moment just because of that first event where we got quite a bit more (relatively speaking, they were all small events), but I'm sure that will be lost with the first good upslope event when Stowe gets 15" and we get 5"! The only times we do REALLY well in the upslope is on a Northerly wind, like we got last year - I think late November or so, when we got about 20" (I'd have to look at my records), but it's a pretty rare setup, from what I understand. We get some on NW wind, but usually only 1/2 to 2/3 of what the Greens get (once again, just from memory, I haven't done any careful analysis). 

At the end of the day... who cares, just let it snow everywhere so everyone's happy!

11/21-22? 

Pittsburg had 11" over those two days. 

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