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Major Hurricane Irma- STORM MODE


stormtracker

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2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

I was looking at maps and it seems like a landfall more toward the western part of the Everglades National Park would be the best case in a range of bad options, but it's complicated with the current/expected size of this eyewall.  We're really talking about trying to thread the needle between big disaster and mega disaster.

If this needs to go to banter I apologize, but I know the Everglades are beyond fragile at this point as an ecosystem. What would this do to them?

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One little discussed item: the storm will be slowing down during its trek up the Gulf Coast, as forecasts now show about a 12 mph forward speed (from just before landfall to maybe Tampa; it speeds up after that) vs. the 16 mph speed the models were indicating a day or two ago. That will make the horrible conditions last a bit longer everywhere.

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1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

I was looking at maps and it seems like a landfall more toward the western part of the Everglades National Park would be the best case in a range of bad options, but it's complicated with the current/expected size of this eyewall.  We're really talking about trying to thread the needle between big disaster and mega disaster.

An east correction is still possible at this juncture too, enough to put I-95 back under the gun for the really bad conditions and huge surge. I think we now just have to watch for where the real north turn starts. The problem with a South FL landfall is that there's a very narrow area where landfall would only be very bad instead of catastrophic. 

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3 minutes ago, KPITSnow said:

If this needs to go to banter I apologize, but I know the Everglades are beyond fragile at this point as an ecosystem. What would this do to them?

It's a marshy landscape that would be prepared for a hurricane impact as much as anywhere I guess, but it would be a horrible impact for sure. But it's this vs an eyewall impact over Fort Myers/Sarasota or Miami to Palm Beach, with a now large eye due to the recent ERC. So it's pick the poison. 

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7 minutes ago, KPITSnow said:

If this needs to go to banter I apologize, but I know the Everglades are beyond fragile at this point as an ecosystem. What would this do to them?

Probably nothing..the vegetation and animal life there has mostly evolved to withstand hurricanes and storm force winds. There have been thousands of these events in the geological/ecological history of the Everglades. As someone pointed out, most palm trees lose their tops at 90-100mph but are not uprooted until 140mph+ winds are reached...mangroves are also squat in design which makes them able to survive hurricane conditions. There might be some changes in salinity/water temperature from some of the flooding, but I'd doubt it would wreak ecological disaster on the Everglades.

The biggest ecological concern from events like Harvey and Irma is probably the sheer amount of waste that is added to landfills, as well as the release of hazardous wastes and the inability to separate recyclables and organics from non-recyclables. Hurricanes leave an incredible amount of debris in their wake, as well as toxic molds and chemicals/sewage, and this has to be managed/cleared away somehow, oftentimes with environmental regulations suspended.

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3 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

It looks like it went W-NW the last couple of frames.  Almost like it repositioned itself back far enough from land and continued back on its track

That northern coast of Cuba projects WNW geographically, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Irma continue to hug the coast for many hours to come before it turns more toward the NW.

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7 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

It looks like it went W-NW the last couple of frames.  Almost like it repositioned itself back far enough from land and continued back on its track

Obvious limits to our knowledge.   The NHC says that the Atlantic ridge asserted its lf enough to bring Irma to the Cuban coast but do

the meteorologists know why the big ridge made that geometric extension to the west?  No scientist would say that hurricanes are living beings but these cyclones sometimes give the impression of having self-protective instincts.  Of course, some storms seem to do the opposite and fall apart quickly.

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3 minutes ago, LakeEffectKing said:

Just reviewing the 12z Euro...and, unless Irma takes a hard left turn over the next few hours, it'll be off by quite a bit to the south by 7am.

Euro7am.png

Nah. Looks on track. 

IMG_4527.thumb.JPG.c6eee7c21b771ae454ec514dbaef9885.JPG

High res Euro is actually just offshore at 12z Saturday as well. 

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It looks like it went W-NW the last couple of frames.  Almost like it repositioned itself back far enough from land and continued back on its track


The wobbles are interesting and like somebody said they can be hallucinations. We have seen wobbles north and south over the last couple hours. You have a
meteorologist designation- can a hurricane really orient to the water to some degree independent of the overall steering currents?
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2 minutes ago, winterymix said:

Obvious limits to our knowledge.   The NHC says that the Atlantic ridge asserted its lf enough to bring Irma to the Cuban coast but do

the meteorologists know why the big ridge made that geometric extension to the west?  No scientist would say that hurricanes are living beings but these cyclones sometimes give the impression of having self-protective instincts.  Of course, some storms seem to do the opposite and fall apart quickly.

Latent heat pump and subsidence around the hurricane (and into the adjacent ridge) can strengthen it.

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16 minutes ago, KPITSnow said:

If this needs to go to banter I apologize, but I know the Everglades are beyond fragile at this point as an ecosystem. What would this do to them?

Not directly related, but interesting fact; a lot of the invasive Burmese Pythons that have been breeding in the Everglades are thought to have originated from a reptile breeding facility that was hit by Hurricane Andrew. So hopefully no zoos with anything that could survive in Florida will be hit too bad. 

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18 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

Its crazy how the GFS has consistently been so far east vs other guidance aside from a run or two here or there

Despite the consistency of the Euro on track the GFS could very well have sniffed out an earlier or stronger trough interaction and sharp N/NW turn.  Pure amateur speculation but the blind squirrel theory is always in the back of my mind. 

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4 minutes ago, Philadelphia Snow said:

Does anyone know what causes a wobble. Is there a particular reason why a Hurricane will wobble left or right.

A met posted on here a few days ago something that really cleared this up for me. The motion path of hurricanes is trochoidal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trochoid

 

Think of taking a top that is moving forward and then lightly blowing on one side of it in the same direction as its rotation

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36 minutes ago, StormchaserChuck said:

Turned West an hour ago, and in last 5 minutes turning North.

http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?parms=meso1-09-96-1-100

 

Truly spectacular to watch and makes us all realize how little we truly understand. This is a learning opportunity for all of us, and how amazing is it that we have the new GOES-16 imagery to watch this unfold. We would not have picked up on these nuances without it.

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