Eskimo Joe Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 As an emergency manager, I'm totally embarrassed about the pathetic preparedness and response thus far from the county and state OEMs in Texas. This is a more feckless "response" than Katrina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain_Patch Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, Eskimo Joe said: As an emergency manager, I'm totally embarrassed about the pathetic preparedness and response thus far from the county and state OEMs in Texas. This is a more feckless "response" than Katrina. If you wanna go anonymous I can send you to a reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskimo Joe Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, osbornjp88 said: If you wanna go anonymous I can send you to a reporter. Nope. I don't talk to the media. I just ramble in online forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, bluewave said: Many of the first responders have been telling reporters off camera that they wish there was a mandatory evacuation order given last week. I guess the authorities were afraid of what happened last time. Hundreds of people died on the highway, before the storm even began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said: As an emergency manager, I'm totally embarrassed about the pathetic preparedness and response thus far from the county and state OEMs in Texas. This is a more feckless "response" than Katrina. Ehhh, we may have to disagree here just a little my friend. At least Abbot was aware what he had to do to trigger federal disaster declaration and request federal assistance. There is no possible way, this response is more reckless and negligent than the one Nagin and Blanco lead for the people of New Orleans. Montgomery County has a population of what 1.1 million now? Imagine the entire county being effected like this? We would have been overwhelmed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, bluewave said: Many of the first responders have been telling reporters off camera that they wish there was a mandatory evacuation order given last week. That is one thing I just simply cannot understand but at the same time, it probably wouldn't have applied to those away from coastal communities anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upper Level LOL Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, bluewave said: Many of the first responders have been telling reporters off camera that they wish there was a mandatory evacuation order given last week. I guess the authorities were afraid of what happened last time. This is idiotic. Evacuation would've resulted in significantly more deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierwx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, bluewave said: Many of the first responders have been telling reporters off camera that they wish there was a mandatory evacuation order given last week. I guess the authorities were afraid of what happened last time. No win situation. Like being captain of a ship, doesn't matter why its sinking, you're going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPetrulli Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Upper Level LOL said: This is idiotic. Evacuation would've resulted in significantly more deaths They could have at least issued voluntary evacuations for areas that flood a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVLion77 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I said this days ago in this message thread.... our population centers in the US are out of alignment with Mother Nature, particularly the gulf region from coastal texas to all of florida. Until we develop technology to control weather and climate, It is just not smart to develop low lying land in the path of tropical systems. Just like the opposite extreme it is not smart to hyper develop the arid regions in the west harming the limited aquifers and causing water shortages . And the east coast has development alignment problems too. We need to plan population development moving forward nation wide.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskimo Joe Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Master of Disaster said: Ehhh, we may have to disagree here just a little my friend. At least Abbot was aware what he had to do to trigger federal disaster declaration and request federal assistance. There is no possible way, this response is more reckless and negligent than the one Nagin and Blanco lead for the people of New Orleans. Montgomery County has a population of what 1.1 million now? Imagine the entire county being effected like this? We would have been overwhelmed as well. It's D5 and just now shelters are starting to get set up, reservoir evacs are not being managed at all just being told to get out with no place to go, the media is being given free reign to poke around INSIDE the shelters. No structure to volunteers or donations management...pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, MattPetrulli said: They could have at least issued voluntary evacuations for areas that flood a lot. The Gov highly encouraged that all people who could possibly evacuate to try and do so. I mean, there was warning. This is catastrophic. There was NO WHERE to put millions in that time period. Impossible mission. The second guessing should cease. Lets track the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPetrulli Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, sbos_wx said: The Gov highly encouraged that all people who could possibly evacuate to try and do so. I mean, there was warning. This is catastrophic. There was NO WHERE to put millions in that time period. Impossible mission. The second guessing should cease. Lets track the storm. I believe they said everyone should shelter in place Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 At the very least, hopefully there is a reevaluation of evacuation procedures and whether they should be done simply because of potential extreme rainfall situations and not related to storm surge. This one was particularly tough to plan for given the population size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleocene Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, LVLion77 said: I said this days ago in this message thread.... our population centers in the US are out of alignment with Mother Nature, particularly the gulf region from coastal texas to all of florida. Until we develop technology to control weather and climate, It is just not smart to develop low lying land in the path of tropical systems. Just like the opposite extreme it is not smart to hyper develop the arid regions in the west harming the limited aquifers and causing water shortages . And the east coast has development alignment problems too. We need to plan population development moving forward nation wide. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There's an entire arm of academic social science about "regional planning" that would wildly agree with these statements. But this country (unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective) is built around state federalism and free markets. People with means have the right to move anywhere, and city formation and growth occurs where it is most economically advantageous. Houston's growth is a natural outcome of our (relatively) free market economy. Sustainability in the traditional triangular sense (economy, environment, equity) is enormously challenging. In the coming years there will be a significant amount of academic research out about how land use and zoning decisions in metro houston influenced the outcome of this catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain_Patch Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, MattPetrulli said: I believe they said everyone should shelter in place Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Mayor gave counter advice to the Gov. When asked if people should leave the Gov. said "I would" the Mayor said: "think twice before you attempt a mass exodus" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, MattPetrulli said: I believe they said everyone should shelter in place Please, correct me if I'm wrong. It seemed to me like everyone was not on the same page with messaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, Mountain_Patch said: Mayor gave counter advice to the Gov. When asked if people should leave the Gov. said "I would" the Mayor said: "think twice before you attempt a mass exodus" etc. Local officials suggested shelter in place. Gov seemed to want evac. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5551707918001/?#sp=show-clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said: It's D5 and just now shelters are starting to get set up, reservoir evacs are not being managed at all just being told to get out with no place to go, the media is being given free reign to poke around INSIDE the shelters. No structure to volunteers or donations management...pathetic. Yea I am def going to agree with ya there now. Def seems to be a lackadaisical attitude and it's been that way since last Wednesday. I just kinda assumed it was that classic Texas attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVLion77 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 There's an entire arm of academic social science about "regional planning" that would wildly agree with these statements. But this country (unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective) is built around state federalism and free markets. People with means have the right to move anywhere, and city formation and growth occurs where it is most economically advantageous. Houston's growth is a natural outcome of our (relatively) free market economy. Sustainability in the traditional triangular sense (economy, environment, equity) is enormously challenging. In the coming years there will be a significant amount of academic research out about how land use and zoning decisions in metro houston influenced the outcome of this catastrophe. I respect your response and agree with your points. I am by no means a socialist or central planner myself. But andrew, katrina, sandy, and now this is making me think a bit differently. Unfortunately the free market approach to explosive development creates central government dependency in terms of cleaning up and rebuilding in the aftermath of these things.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain_Patch Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Paleocene said: There's an entire arm of academic social science about "regional planning" that would wildly agree with these statements. But this country (unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective) is built around state federalism and free markets. People with means have the right to move anywhere, and city formation and growth occurs where it is most economically advantageous. Houston's growth is a natural outcome of our (relatively) free market economy. Sustainability in the traditional triangular sense (economy, environment, equity) is enormously challenging. In the coming years there will be a significant amount of academic research out about how land use and zoning decisions in metro houston influenced the outcome of this catastrophe. Our population centers are mostly older and deal with trade and economics. Beyond the free market they represent a past. Charleston port. Houston Port. New Orleans trading port. NYC Port/economic center. Boston Port, Philadelphia? Port. This was exacerbated if you look at the great migration/great depression/recession. Look at China, the UK, France, Italy, Australia, and most asian nations. The same rules are universal outside of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValpoVike Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I can only imagine how chaotic and dangerous the roads would have been had mass evac orders been issued. I was in Wyoming for the eclipse and asshats were doing all sorts of very crazy and dangerous driving in the gridlock that followed, even though there was no natural disaster pushing them. People died on the road because of it, I personally witnessed the aftermath of a fatal accident caused by a jerk driving in the wrong lane to bypass the gridlock. Multiply the eclipse road chaos by 100x for S.E. Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, MattPetrulli said: I believe they said everyone should shelter in place Please, correct me if I'm wrong. There were actually mixed messages between the Governor and Mayor Turner. Last week, Governor Abbott, at a press conference, said he used to live in the Houston area, and urged anyone in the Houston area to evacuate. The media immediately hyperventilated and then the Mayor issued a statement to walk back the Governor's statement. In other words, mass confusion. And after what happened with the Rita evacuation (with nothing happening in Houston), the message has been driven to shelter in place unless you live in a surge zone. The inland flooding component always gets overlooked, so most people decided to stay put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Disaster Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, LVLion77 said: I respect your response and agree with your points. I am by no means a socialist or central planner myself. But andrew, katrina, sandy, and now this is making me think a bit differently. Unfortunately the free market approach to explosive development creates central government dependency in terms of cleaning up and rebuilding in the aftermath of these things. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If you think zoning here is questionable, Miami is building it's first 1000 foot plus supertall skyscraper over in Brickell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Reimer Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, sbos_wx said: Local officials suggested shelter in place. Gov seemed to want evac. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5551707918001/?#sp=show-clips Well, now they will be 'partially evacuated'. Sounds like Austin will get about 7,000 evacuees, Dallas expecting tens of thousands. However, most of those can't start until I-45/I-10 (or some road that will let buses out of town) isn't under feet of water. Galveston actually is flying several planeloads of evacuees up to Dallas this evening from their airport. I can see it both ways, but they should have voluntarily evacuated the typical flood spots. I get why folks who have never flooded before didn't leave, but the mayor of Houston is a dip**** for saying folks should 'shelter in place' or stay to EVERYONE in Houston. At least get the typical flood spots out of there. Now we're having to evacuate folks by boat and aircraft. Eh, I'm trying to stay out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPetrulli Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, jasons said: There were actually mixed messages between the Governor and Mayor Turner. Last week, Governor Abbott, at a press conference, said he used to live in the Houston area, and urged anyone in the Houston area to evacuate. The media immediately hyperventilated and then the Mayor issued a statement to walk back the Governor's statement. In other words, mass confusion. And after what happened with the Rita evacuation (with nothing happening in Houston), the message has been driven to shelter in place unless you live in a surge zone. The flooding component always gets overlooked, so most people decided to stay put. I was talking about the mayor, I should have stated that. I believe the Governor has been doing good so far in response to the hurricane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, David Reimer said: Well, now they will be 'partially evacuated'. Sounds like Austin will get about 7,000 evacuees, Dallas expecting tens of thousands. However, most of those can't start until I-45/I-10 (or some road that will let buses out of town) isn't under feet of water. Galveston actually is flying several planeloads of evacuees up to Dallas this evening from their airport. I can see it both ways, but they should have voluntarily evacuated the typical flood spots. I get why folks who have never flooded before didn't leave, but the mayor of Houston is a dip**** for saying folks should 'shelter in place' or stay to EVERYONE in Houston. At least get the typical flood spots out of there. Now we're having to evacuate folks by boat and aircraft. Eh, I'm trying to stay out of it. A lot of people don't have the financial means to evacuate... Another major, often ignored factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice-Regent Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, LVLion77 said: I said this days ago in this message thread.... our population centers in the US are out of alignment with Mother Nature, particularly the gulf region from coastal texas to all of florida. Until we develop technology to control weather and climate, It is just not smart to develop low lying land in the path of tropical systems. Just like the opposite extreme it is not smart to hyper develop the arid regions in the west harming the limited aquifers and causing water shortages . And the east coast has development alignment problems too. We need to plan population development moving forward nation wide. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Just like the technology to suck trillions of tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere? Some things are just too big and too complex to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Reimer Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, sbos_wx said: A lot of people don't have the financial means to evacuate... Another major, often ignored factor After Rita the state implemented several huge revisions to ensure that folks who didn't have the means to evacuate could. For example, I believe there is a bus contact with around 1,000-2,000 buses on standby for major hurricanes. Those were not available to Houston residents in low-lying areas since no evacuations (voluntary/mandatory) were in place. However, this isn't the time to really debate it. The focus needs to be on saving lives at this point. I'm really concerned at what river impacts we'll be dealing with over the next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDIII Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, David Reimer said: After Rita the state implemented several huge revisions to ensure that folks who didn't have the means to evacuate could. For example, I believe there is a bus contact with around 1,000-2,000 buses on standby for major hurricanes. Those were not available to Houston residents in low-lying areas since no evacuations (voluntary/mandatory) were in place. However, this isn't the time to really debate it. The focus needs to be on saving lives at this point. I'm really concerned at what river impacts we'll be dealing with over the next week. Didn't one of those busses blow up during rita... I could of swore some jackass ignited oxygen tank with a cigerrette on one of those busses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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