NorthShoreWx Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 This may be the official version (or not, it is from 2013), but it is a NOAA guideline (from a NOAA site) for coops that references 1x/day: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf This NOAA publication is only a few months old ( http://www.nws.noaa.gov/directives/sym/pd01013005curr.pdf ) and points to this source for snow measurement guidelines: https://www.cocorahs.org/media/video/measuringsnow/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPcantmeasuresnow Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said: I searched and couldn't find anything about another change in the guidelines back to 6 hour clearing. I think one person thinks that, tells someone, who tells someone else, then it's all over that "they went back to doing it some other way". When in reality nothing has changed. But since there doesn't not seem to be a central clearing house for the latest methodologies, it's hard to make a definitive case. What I did find indicates that we wipe the board no more than once per day and measure snowfall at the peak depth before it compacts. Well like I said when I started the discussion, the wiping the board every 6 hours was as per a demonstration I happened to see on TWC about 2-4 weeks ago on how to measure snow. They did have one of their higher up meteorologists doing the demo so I figured were back to that. Whether TWC has it right, no idea. It always made more sense to me, especially if you're going to compare historical storms, because wiping every 6 hours was I believe the method used through most of recorded history. I could be wrong and if so someone let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said: Well like I said when I started the discussion, the wiping the board every 6 hours was as per a demonstration I happened to see on TWC about 2-4 weeks ago on how to measure snow. They did have one of their higher up meteorologists doing the demo so I figured were back to that. Whether TWC has it right, no idea. It always made more sense to me, especially if you're going to compare historical storms, because wiping every 6 hours was I believe the method used through most of recorded history. I could be wrong and if so someone let me know. I don't think so. I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm. A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow. But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol. TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishRob17 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said: I don't think so. I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm. A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow. But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol. TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot. Good post. Yeah, I’ve seen nothing historically about measuring every 6 hours, it’s very recent history. That method never made sense to me, as others mentioned, it’s what is in the ground that matters IMO. What’s the point of saying 24” fell if the max depth on the ground at the end of the snowfall is 20”? I see apparently TWC is still off their game, which sucks because they were so good back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE National Weather Service Binghamton NY 310 PM EST Mon Feb 5 2018 NYZ062-PAZ043-044-047-048-072-062015- /O.NEW.KBGM.WS.A.0002.180207T1100Z-180208T0500Z/ Sullivan-Wyoming-Lackawanna-Luzerne-Pike-Southern Wayne- Including the cities of Monticello, Tunkhannock, Scranton, Hazleton, Wilkes-Barre, Milford, and Honesdale 310 PM EST Mon Feb 5 2018 ...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH WEDNESDAY EVENING... * WHAT...Heavy mixed precipitation possible. Plan on difficult travel conditions, including during the afternoon commute on Wednesday. Total snow accumulations of 4 to 8 inches and ice accumulations of up to one tenth of an inch are possible. * WHERE...In Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Lackawanna, Luzerne, Pike and Southern Wayne Counties. In New York, Sullivan County. * WHEN...From Wednesday morning through Wednesday evening. * ADDITIONAL DETAILS...Significant reductions in visibility are possible. The highest snow totals are expected across the higher elevations in the area. The heaviest snowfall is expected from 10 AM until 2 PM Wednesday, before precipitation mixes with sleet, rain and freezing rain. The wintry mix should change back to light snow or snow showers, before ending Wednesday evening. Snow may fall at rates up to 1 inch per hour at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snywx Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 0z GFS @ 1pm Wed Gonna be close for those of us right along 84.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyWx Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 6 hours ago, snywx said: 0z GFS @ 1pm Wed Gonna be close for those of us right along 84.. Lol the freezing lines at the surface and 850mb essentially cut right through MBY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitylover Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Looks like it's about to snow now. Anybody getting anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snywx Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, gravitylover said: Looks like it's about to snow now. Anybody getting anything? About 0.2" new otg. Snow is steady at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishRob17 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Yeah, a nice little burst of snow this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadInTheClouds Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 snowing moderate/heavy in Hyde Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Gorilla Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Surprised by the snow this morning now at one inch here in Poughkeepsie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Yeah, nice appetizer, mod snow atm. Looks pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Gorilla Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, Juliancolton said: Yeah, nice appetizer, mod snow atm. Looks pretty. This snow is from the cold front, correct? Will this surprise higher intensity snow have any bearing on the trajectory or thermal profiles of tomorrow's system? Some Mets were discussing how the cold may be under modeled given the fresh injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPcantmeasuresnow Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 21 hours ago, NorthShoreWx said: I don't think so. I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm. A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow. But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol. TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot. 20 hours ago, IrishRob17 said: Good post. Yeah, I’ve seen nothing historically about measuring every 6 hours, it’s very recent history. That method never made sense to me, as others mentioned, it’s what is in the ground that matters IMO. What’s the point of saying 24” fell if the max depth on the ground at the end of the snowfall is 20”? I see apparently TWC is still off their game, which sucks because they were so good back in the day. Below is The Weather Channnel demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know. Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close. My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff. https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The good news is I'm at just a hair under 2" so far from this morning's burst of snow! First wholesale positive bust of the year. The stuff is basically translucent, so I'm expecting extremely high ratios once the contents of the Stratus melt down. The bad news is I caught a hidden patch of ice on the way back in from measuring and ate it big-time. WG, I think most of this is dPVA-driven from a shortwave zipping along in the zonal flow... you can see it well on the WV loop this am. I can't really think of any major implications this might have on tomorrow's system. The sensible conditions have thrown a lot of us for a loop, but the upper-level wave looks about the same as modeled. We just got lucky with slightly more moisture in the column than anticipated, which wouldn't have even been noticed if not for a well-placed DGZ and a tenuous trigger for ascent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The NAM meanwhile leaves the door open for this to be the bigger of the two snowfalls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesussxwx Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 NAM warmed up considerably again. Expecting a boatload of sleet/frz rain now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Gorilla Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Juliancolton said: The NAM meanwhile leaves the door open for this to be the bigger of the two snowfalls... Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The Tidbits snow map for the NAM is terrible given the thermal profiles. That starts as sleet and quickly flips to cold rain for the remainder of the event. Looks like it's on crack in any event but I remain wary of that warm punch in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPcantmeasuresnow Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, nesussxwx said: NAM warmed up considerably again. Expecting a boatload of sleet/frz rain now. F that, I'd rather it just rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2.0" total melted down to 0.08" liquid, 25:1. Nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said: Below is The Weather Channnel demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know. Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close. My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff. https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall The weather channel is sharing obsolete information. That change occurred a few years ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPcantmeasuresnow Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 40 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said: The weather channel is sharing obsolete information. That change occurred a few years ago. 2 hours ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said: Below is The Weather Channnel demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know. Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close. My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff. https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall You would think they would do a little research before doing a piece like that, but then again,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishRob17 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 49 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said: You would think they would do a little research before doing a piece like that, but then again,,,,,, Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyWx Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said: You would think they would do a little research before doing a piece like that, but then again,,,,,, Couldn't agree more, don't want people just getting into the hobby to be misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snywx Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 0.5" from this mornings event. Freshened up what little snow I had otg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsdnice Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 ... Winter Storm Warning in effect from 4 am to 10 PM EST Wednesday... * what... heavy mixed precipitation. Total snow accumulations of 6 to 9 inches, with localized amounts up to 11 inches, are expected. Ice accretions up to one tenth of an inch are also anticipated. * Where... Sullivan County. * When... from 4 am to 10 PM EST Wednesday. Steady snow is first expected to develop between 7 and 8 am. The heaviest snowfall rates, at times 1 to 2 inches per hour, should occur between roughly 9 am and 2 PM. Snow is expected to mix with, or change over to sleet and freezing rain, during the afternoon. Steady precipitation should end during the evening. * Additional details... plan on difficult travel conditions, including during the morning commute on Wednesday. Be prepared for significant reductions in visibility at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I'm beginning to suspect that 100" may be out of reach this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishRob17 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Juliancolton said: I'm beginning to suspect that 100" may be out of reach this season. LOL. Quite the turn of events over the past month or so. Good for the Capital District, as I recall they are long over sure for a decent hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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