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February 9th Coastal Storm Discussion


Baroclinic Zone

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1 minute ago, mahk_webstah said:

I think the mets don't believe those higher qpf, higher ratio maps, i.e. kuchera and the nam/euro weenie maps.  But damn the Euro has me around .6 or .7 and that should translate to 7-9 or 10 inches but we are slated for 3-5

Well one problem with Kuchera, it doesn't care about lift. It just cares about what the max temp in the profile is. Around 1P1 say the max temp is only -10C, Kuchera says 20:1 ratios then. But if all the lift is above the DGZ, you'll get crappy crystals and probably be closer to climo average.

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1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Well one problem with Kuchera, it doesn't care about lift. It just cares about what the max temp in the profile is. Around 1P1 say the max temp is only -10C, Kuchera says 20:1 ratios then. But if all the lift is above the DGZ, you'll get crappy crystals and probably be closer to climo average.

Cobb for the NAM is about 8 for CON

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10 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

In the FWIW category, it looks like the 12z suite was a little too strong with the shortwave over the MO Valley. Might mean the 12z runs were slightly too amped. 

I know, poop emoji in the punchbowl. 

What gives you that indication? If anything the 18z GFS initialization looks a bit stronger at 850hPa than the 6hr fcast from the 12z GFS.

Edit: I see it's slightly less amplified after initialization...

850_dprog_dt.gif

 

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5 hours ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Oh.. Legro. 

Need to call him Legro

I just caught up to this, I'm actually totally fine with this. Ha

Back to the storm, I will say the Cobb ratios spitting out 20:1, it looks like it will happen for someone who gets under the best banding. It may be narrow, but it should happen. The cross hair is nearly perfect for parts of SNE.

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6 minutes ago, phil882 said:

What gives you that indication? If anything the 18z GFS initialization looks a bit stronger at 850hPa than the 6hr fcast from the 12z GFS.

Edit: I see it's slightly less amplified after initialization...

Sorry, I meant models vs the actual shortwave heights sampled by the raobs. 

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19 minutes ago, phil882 said:

Keep an eye on the HRRR frontogenesis plots. The axis of the 700-hPa frontogenesis is likely to be along and poleward where you will see the best snowfall ratios. Right now the latest run has the axis over NW NJ - Far South NY but north of NYC - NW Connecticut - Central MA. Folks equatorward will still get decent snowfall accumulation, but may not have the best ice crystal composition (more rimmed/needle like snow flakes) since the strongest -omega will be occurring at temperatures above the dendritic growth zone. 

Loop of the HRRR Frontogenesis: http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/lb13_img/hrrr/hrrr_ncep_fgen_all_alb.php

hrrr_ncep_fgen700_KALB_19.png

 

 

So if I understand this right, this would suggest a heavy frontogenic band fairly far inland.  That is my hope with this storm as this plot you have shared suggest heavy snows up north of the Mass/ NH border

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2 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

I just caught up to this, I'm actually totally fine with this. Ha

Back to the storm, I will say the Cobb ratios spitting out 20:1, it looks like it will happen for someone who gets under the best banding. It may be narrow, but it should happen. The cross hair is nearly perfect for parts of SNE.

It prob like a Feb '01 deal...someone under the band will get about 6" more than forecast....even if QPF is only marginally more under that band. They'll stack it up with amazing snow growth.

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