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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

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2 hours ago, Cold Rain said:

We're going to get a system.  But temps are going to be the problem.  You can pretty much forget this one at this point.

I don't understand all the negativity!? I mean we still have a storm showing up and it's still 4-5 days away! It will trend in our favor, they almos always do! :)

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6 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I can't quite put into words how absolutely unbelievable it is that we have a solidly +PNA, solidly -AO and the MJO going deep into phases 7-8 and we're still torching/going to torch. Even with all the global warming you can muster up, that should NOT happen.

Europe and Asia are in the freezer.  It usually takes time to flip things around from something like this but we are already out to Feb 21st.   Looks bleak...maybe we get lucky end of Feb into early March.

gfs-ens_T2maMean_nhem_12.png

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2 minutes ago, packbacker said:

Europe and Asia are in the freezer.  It usually takes time to flip things around from something like this but we are already out to Feb 21st.   Looks bleak...maybe we get lucky end of Feb into early March.

Insane. So, even with reasonably favored teleconnections that usually yield us a decent winter period, what on earth is our missing "link" right now? Which teleconnection are we messing up to cause the cold dump (or bathtub slosh for mack and Frosty) to be directly on the other side of the pole?

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1 hour ago, franklin NCwx said:

Remember when the euro was a good model? What happened to cold and no storm at all?

At beyond 72-96 hours the Euro no longer is that superior.  Inside of that window if you ignore its dry QPF bias it's still the best model although inside 30 I would say the RGEM may be better although the RGEM has struggled this winter between Philly and Richmond it's done well seemingly everywhere north and south of there.  

The official stats may show the Euro is still best beyond 96, but the problem is all those verification studies do is verify 500 heights.  That doesn't tell you which model may be best in regards to forecasting storm systems.  Because you're including numerous zonal flow or benign weather pattern days in there

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4 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Insane. So, even with reasonably favored teleconnections that usually yield us a decent winter period, what on earth is our missing "link" right now? Which teleconnection are we messing up to cause the cold dump (or bathtub slosh for mack and Frosty) to be directly on the other side of the pole?

Day 11+ the PAC low is to close to the west coast, we lose a cold delivering PNA, with a +EPO and +NAO.  The AO looks positive to me or neutral at best.  Day 10 is a pretty good pattern but it breaks down fairly quickly.  Back the PAC low west a hair it would be even better.  

gfs-ens_z500a_nhem_41.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, mrdaddyman said:

Models do an awesome job 5+ days out when they are forecasting rain but can't get a snow forecast right 24 hours out from a storm. I think this one is pretty much done for.

I'll agree seems easy for the models to predict rain but the snow is another thing, plus we should have already had another snowstorm to track, this is unbelievable .    :(

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5 minutes ago, fritschy said:

I'll agree seems easy for the models to predict rain but the snow is another thing, plus we should have already had another snowstorm to track, this is unbelievable .    :(

I wouldn't count anything out yet. Euro not out yet and could easily dismiss the GFS.  And the Canadian has nothing of interest.  This thing coulld be in either Chicago or Wilmington and neither would surprise me.

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Ran across this--  :raining:

 

Would be nice to pull that rabbit out of the hat Thursday and its certainly something that can happen It does snow in unfavorable patterns sometimes just like we can miss in favorable patterns. But as far as this whole adjustment, the MJO is the big think for me right now as I got burned bad when it went more strongly into the warm phases than I thought it would..but then again the rise in the SOI came along, but its going to be interesting to see if when this fall in the SOI comes if that is the actual start of the pattern that leads us to the new el nino which I believe now strongly is coming, and with the MJO response a correction the other way as the modeling is showing for what is now day 9-13.

 

We can fight the battle beyond that when we see how the next 10 days pan out

 

 

I am dwelling on this because this MJO amplitude is a big deal. It has not gone as strong as forecasted in Feb since 1988 that I can find and the 2 case samples lead to prolonged late season colder than normal.

 

Ride that horse till it bucks you in the end................ or will it?

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2 hours ago, packbacker said:

Europe and Asia are in the freezer.  It usually takes time to flip things around from something like this but we are already out to Feb 21st.   Looks bleak...maybe we get lucky end of Feb into early March.

gfs-ens_T2maMean_nhem_12.png

Wow if this verifies.  Virtually all of NA from Greenland to Baja, from Florida to Alaska warm.  Virtually all of northern Eurasia, from Iberia to Kamchatka, at or below normal.  I really want to understand what would cause this sort of distribution.

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33 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

This winter is just like an NC State basketball team.  It doesn't matter how many favorable teleconnections or how much talent you line up.  The coaching sucks and you just ain't winning.  Best to dissolve all expectations of anything except sucktitude and move on to bass fishing.

But in your analogy there is still a causative factor: bad coaching.  What is our "bad coaching" for this winter.  It doesn't appear to be AGW because it is fine over on the other side of the world.

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1 hour ago, mackerel_sky said:

I think JB said it best with his anal log the other day: March 1960! Yes, he actually said that!!!! :(

Just hang in there Mack, JB might have you a surprise!!! lol. I'll be sure and let you know if it turns cold and snows late Feb-March. ;) He's hit his snow forecast for my back yard already, little lacking on the cold. lol 

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15 minutes ago, cbmclean said:

But in your analogy there is still a causative factor: bad coaching.  What is our "bad coaching" for this winter.  It doesn't appear to be AGW because it is fine over on the other side of the world.

Don't know.  In both cases, the background state for success is missing.  For whatever reason, Gottfried is not a good coach.  And for whatever reason, the background state for a cold US just doesn't exist this year.

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22 minutes ago, cbmclean said:

But in your analogy there is still a causative factor: bad coaching.  What is our "bad coaching" for this winter.  It doesn't appear to be AGW because it is fine over on the other side of the world.

La Nina.  We almost always have a bad winter in ninas. Add to that no atlantic blocking. 

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1 hour ago, franklin NCwx said:

La Nina.  We almost always have a bad winter in ninas. Add to that no atlantic blocking. 

In addition to ongoing background warming, we've had a classic, warm La Nina pattern thus far...

uq9VkQC.gif

 

And the AO has been really high...Dec 1 to Jan 31 averaged AO was the 4th highest on record since 1951.

All winters are unique, but El Ninos that aren't super strong give us the best shot at below normal temperatures in the southeast.

CyPs7UK.gif

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34 minutes ago, griteater said:

In addition to ongoing background warming, we've had a classic, warm La Nina pattern thus far...

uq9VkQC.gif

 

And the AO has been really high...Dec 1 to Jan 31 averaged AO was the 4th highest on record since 1951.

All winters are unique, but El Ninos that aren't super strong give us the best shot at below normal temperatures in the southeast.

CyPs7UK.gif

Pretty much the composite for the worst of our Nina's.  The aleutian ridge did help to give the PAC NW an epic winter.  

IMG_4137.PNG

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