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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

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6 hours ago, Jon said:

CFS doing CFS things again, expect colder run on monthly website tomorrow morning. 

 

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If a true sustained Greenland block is realized, that would be the outcome. However, as we know , not likely with the roaring +QBO and Pac. State. It is possible it's picking up on the impending SSW thus the depiction.

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2 minutes ago, DopplerWx said:

the clipper may give central nc more snow accum than the last event if it can overperform.  we have seen these be a nice surprise in the past so its def worth watching over the next few days.

I'm thinking we just want something to keep showing on the models. Then we'll have to wait until the actual event to see how this materializes.   

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The GEFS/GEPS don't look horrible in the LR.  Haven't looked at any individual members, but the means show a fairly typical winter pattern, it looks like to me.  I don't see anything scary, although I don' see a big snowstorm pattern either.  I also can't see the EPS after 240, so they may be completely different.

As far as the indexes go:

AO - split pos vs. neg. in the LR

NAO - looks to rise solidly pos

PNA - looks to remain pos

MJO - mixed bag: UK/CMC/some Euro members bring it around to phases 3/4, while the USA takes it through 2, into the COD, and remerges in phases 7-8.

How does the CFS look today?

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13 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

It's probably a weak Nino though.  I'm not sure the correlation between weak Nino and positive QBO.  I do know 06-07 was but so was 04-05 which was a much better winter than 06-07.

Was thinking 91 and 93 might be closest matches, assuming weak +enso and +qbo. I thought 07 was cold in Feb but if we blend those 3 it's not pretty.   

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5 minutes ago, packbacker said:

Was thinking 91 and 93 might be closest matches, assuming weak +enso and +qbo. I thought 07 was cold in Feb but if we blend those 3 it's not pretty.   

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The problem was the AMO and the Pacific were in different states in 91 and 93 then they are today.  I'm not sure the El Niño would behave the same.  89-93 also had zero blocking for the most part.   El Ninos as a whole largely behaved bizarrely for the east coast in the 80s and 90s with the exception of 87-88.  That went against history as well as most El Ninos since which are usually favorable for the eastern us assuming they aren't overly strong. 

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2 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

The problem was the AMO and the Pacific were in different states in 91 and 93 then they are today.  I'm not sure the El Niño would behave the same.  89-93 also had zero blocking for the most part.  

Agree...but warm analogs are winning the past 10-15 years.  For the SE since 04 we have had 9 AN winters, 3 BN and 1 neutral.  Not sure what it's going to change that type of spread but the 3 BN winters were all blocky.  Not a lot of support for HLB even with a +enso with this crap qbo.  

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4 minutes ago, packbacker said:

Agree...but warm analogs are winning the past 10-15 years.  For the SE since 04 we have had 9 AN winters, 3 BN and 1 neutral.  Not sure what it's going to change that type of spread but the 3 BN winters were all blocky.  Not a lot of support for HLB even with a +enso with this crap qbo.  

There really have been some strange things.  GA/SC not seeing any major winter storm in 02-03 and 15-16 yet seeing major events in 10-11 and 16-17 which were La Niñas

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2 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

It would be nice to understand why warm analogs are winning.  It's got to be due somehow to climate change.  But it would be nice to have some better understanding around this, as it would allow us to refine our analogging process.

JB finally broke out the anal logs today, and the gefs and cfsv2, to get his cold February point across! We are doomed! He has as many purple and green cold maps as Pack has red hot torchy ones!!

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7 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

It would be nice to understand why warm analogs are winning.  It's got to be due somehow to climate change.  But it would be nice to have some better understanding around this, as it would allow us to refine our analogging process.

The warm AMO I believe is a big reason why. Many of the SE US cities show a distinct correlation to colder and snowier winters in the cold AMO.   The recent years are behaving quite a bit like the 1940s and 1950s.  The AMO seems to have less of an impact in New England and the MA where it seems the major difference is the severity of the cold when it gets very cold. Most of NYC's sub 5 degree temps occur during the cold AMO phase.  I believe the colder AMO also tends to favor less amping up of storm systems which results in flatter weaker activity which favors the SE and southern MA 

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1 minute ago, SnowGoose69 said:

The warm AMO I believe is a big reason why. Many of the SE US cities show a distinct correlation to colder and snowier winters in the cold AMO.   The recent years are behaving quite a bit like the 1940s and 1950s.  The AMO seems to have less of an impact in New England and the MA where it seems the major difference is the severity of the cold when it gets very cold. Most of NYC's sub 5 degree temps occur during the cold AMO phase 

Yep...NAO drives our winters down here so no surprise the cold AMO period reflected -NAO.   

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