Winter Banter & General Discussion/Observations

[CapturedNature]

FWIW, I opened a Spring banter thread:

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/49761-spring-banter-general-discussionobservations/

 

[SJonesWX]

8 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

Even Andover, ME hit 94 once. Although if nobody drove through the area with a thermometer did it even happen?

i heard that Snowman guy drove up there with his accordian to measure temps. he didn't have a thermometer but from the car it looked like it was only 89.

[moneypitmike]

23 minutes ago, MetHerb said:

FWIW, I opened a Spring banter thread:

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/49761-spring-banter-general-discussionobservations/

 

Thanks for doing so.  Methinks this could have been started over a week ago.  Not seeing anything to get excited about for the duration, I'm going to give the winter a "gentleman's B-".  All in all, rather disappointing.  With below average snowfall, poor retention and a mid-February end to the season I could have gone lower.

[CoastalWx]

How is a B- disappointing?  C- may be disappointing.

[moneypitmike]

2 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

How is a B- disappointing?  C- may be disappointing.

Well I gave my reasons.  I also called it a 'gentleman's' B-; I could have just as easily gone with a C+.  The disappointment is that this started strong out of the gate.  I was running well ahead of average through December.  Then, the air came out of the tires a bit after that.  Of course, the wheels fell off completely the second half of February.

[HoarfrostHubb]

I would def give it a C or C-

Average snow (barring a miracle comeback)

Awful retention

Lots of cutters and record warm temps

One good storm and two meh ones and lots of nickels

[HoarfrostHubb]

34 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

i heard that Snowman guy drove up there with his accordian to measure temps. he didn't have a thermometer but from the car it looked like it was only 89.

This is awesome

[CoastalWx]

22 minutes ago, moneypitmike said:

Well I gave my reasons.  I also called it a 'gentleman's' B-; I could have just as easily gone with a C+.  The disappointment is that this started strong out of the gate.  I was running well ahead of average through December.  Then, the air came out of the tires a bit after that.  Of course, the wheels fell off completely the second half of February.

C- in my book. Could go lower if March is a shut out. Snow was ok, but temps completely blew. Also a very small period of good winter wx with little other snow spread out.

[Hoth]

11 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

C- in my book. Could go lower if March is a shut out. Snow was ok, but temps completely blew. Also a very small period of good winter wx with little other snow spread out.

Didn't you have two 15"+ storms? In my book, that automatically lofts a crud winter to at least a B.

[Ginx snewx]

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

It seems like one individual was burning tires in his fire pit again.It seems like one individual was burning tires in his fire pit again.

Hey Pete Repete, type much? Unlike you I hold a deep respect for the environment and would never burn tires. I am sure your local ordinances require you to burn in a 24 inch diameter pit those fake rolled up logs but hey enjoy.

[CoastalWx]

7 minutes ago, Hoth said:

Didn't you have two 15"+ storms? In my book, that automatically lofts a crud winter to at least a B.

No. 14 and 13. That's the only thing holding this up. Temps did a fantastic job of screwing any hope of enjoyment for a period of winter except for those two weeks in early Feb. I found this winter somewhat frustrating. Growing season started in feb.

[CoastalWx]

2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Hey Pete Repete, type much? Unlike you I hold a deep respect for the environment and would never burn tires. I am sure your local ordinances require you to burn in a 24 inch diameter pit those fake rolled up logs but hey enjoy.

[Ginx snewx]

1 hour ago, dendrite said:

You will be here and you will like it.

But back to the debate...OK, say you did have two days. You know that your COOP is an outlierregion wide and that everyone else had a nice 6-8 week torch in the heart of summer. Why say it was "meh" for heat then? It's like MRG saying 01-02 was a great winter or something when he knows only his location was piling up snowfall.

First no Meh, second it wasn't HHH so we talked it up a lot as perfect beach weather, 3rd, drought talk when there really isn't one, faux Tors when there really isn't a threat doesn't interest me anymore. I often wonder how people get a pass for pimping severe days away yet others get weenie tags for pimping snow storms. I salute Scooter for calling that out.

[Ginx snewx]

1 hour ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Anger and alcohol really took over for several posters last night it appears.

Unlike you many of our lives do not revolve around driving hours and standing in line to buy 4 packs of the latest craft beer craze. 

[Cold Miser]

25 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Hey Pete Repete, type much? Unlike you I hold a deep respect for the environment and would never burn tires. I am sure your local ordinances require you to burn in a 24 inch diameter pit those fake rolled up logs but hey enjoy.

I lol'd.

The good ole' urban "firepit". This one is 26" though.

[Typhoon Tip]

9 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

Even Andover, ME hit 94 once. Although if nobody drove through the area with a thermometer did it even happen?

 ... there's definitely a tendency for imby impressions to describe the whole world that goes on with people. Human nature I suppose. 

For all our conceits, we're still just cats hiding heads in paper bags with butts and tails sticking out - ... thinking our opinions are all safe and snug, irrefutable and immutable.  

No, that debate is clearly based on (preferences+semantics)  -vs- numbers;  the former is obviously highly subjective. There probably can't be a clear winner of reason in that discussion because of that preferential lens. 

I looked at the hard numbers for last summer for the four majors across SNE and they were above normal every month. The exact, clear and irrefutable numbers showed between 0 and +1 F for the months of June, which ballooned to between +2 and +3 F in July, and then even further in August to between +4 and + 5 F  

If we want to qualify beyond just those numbers, we run risk of starting these petty squabbles - not sure why it matters enough for people to expend the time ... but, let's put a "?" at the tail end of these, so as to elicit conversation and not in-your-face:

+ 1 is probably negligible?  

+ 3, and considering that occupies the full spread of diurnal change ... in order to maintain that degree of departure ..probably is a tad more noticeable?  

+ 5 and one could fairly assess that as either subjectively or objectively, it was hot.

...Oh yeah... ?  

Then, you gotta get the 'colors' of hot.  Like, personally, I think anything over about 87.4 is hot, regardless of dew point.  But, I allow that to mean very warm ... between that and about 91 (go ahead and skew both ends by the HIs). Hot is 91 to 95 and very hot is anything beyond 95... again, augment if we like around consideration for the insane HI calculation.  

We have to be careful, though, posting monthly means as declarative; because they do a poor job describing the system... For anyone that understands arithmetic ...they obviously hide the extremes.  If it's nominal heat the whole way, but is +2.. most folks in mainstay society probably don't think of that season as memorably warm. But, an average season with two, Hades walks the earth torridity bomb 7 day stints might get the region(s) to the same average, but that impression is likely different.  

So basically, like this winter has been (ironically) we get to average this and that while hiding the fact that for winter enthusiasts, it's sucked style. But that's probably goopy in subjective bias too -

I remember this debate bandied early last autumn as we were closing the book on the summer ... I think that those that don't like summer in general (like intrinsically) were over stating the warmth of the summer; perhaps because their angst for having suffered three or four months of it sort of 'nudged their posting tenor.'  Contrasting, those that appreciate summer were not as impressed with the scale in degree of the positive departures.  I know I was not.  Existentially.. I have "felt" hotter summers?  I also recall pretty specifically that we got hot but the vernacular "BIG HEAT" shunted south - it was a strange thing where the thickness tended to peal south of the heights leaving big gaps between those two thermometric conditions.  Interesting.  Nonetheless, and personal druthers aside, the numbers are what they are.   

Both sides will probably never agree, but ...somewhere in the middle, they have to agree on the hard numbers.

Regardless of the present day cutlure's delusional/meme that it is alright to eschew facts and rely upon contrivances to guide their perceptions of reality (the Zombie apocalypse) ... there is still a beauty in hard numbers:  they are true whether you believe them or not  

[Damage In Tolland]

34 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Unlike you many of our lives do not revolve around driving hours and standing in line to buy 4 packs of the latest craft beer craze. 

Just hate to see you drinking late at night and online, and getting angry over such small things. It's not good for you.

[ORH_wxman]

11 hours ago, eekuasepinniW said:

The 1870's must have been wonderful.

I know it's not a very common area of interest amongst climate folk...a lot of the talk gets swallowed up in AGW hysteria.....but the 1870s were a fascinating decade. It had some incredible warmth in the U.S. after a very cold start. In fact, for coops that go back far enough in the plains...esp Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc, the winter of 1877-1878 still remains the warmest winter on record 140 years later (and it's not particularly close either). I do wish we had a bit more data from that period. The warmth extended into the 1880s but it became more volatile....there was some extreme cold mixed in during a couple winters.

[Ginx snewx]

52 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Just hate to see you drinking late at night and online, and getting angry over such small things. It's not good for you.

Hate to see? Great then as I don't drink on work nights at all.  Lol at anger, anger is the meltdowns we see here over politics, no snow and Valentine's day. I am rarely angry, life is too short, was angry when  Carr went down along with the backup QB. Great team ruined.

[CoastalWx]

4 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I know it's not a very common area of interest amongst climate folk...a lot of the talk gets swallowed up in AGW hysteria.....but the 1870s were a fascinating decade. It had some incredible warmth in the U.S. after a very cold start. In fact, for coops that go back far enough in the plains...esp Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc, the winter of 1877-1878 still remains the warmest winter on record 140 years later (and it's not particularly close either). I do wish we had a bit more data from that period. The warmth extended into the 1880s but it became more volatile....there was some extreme cold mixed in during a couple winters.

Thou doth be wearing plum smugglers in the 1750s?

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

You obviously don't know the climo of forested areas. Both COOPS,my records, and many others if you bothered doing some research will verify. You do a MADIS check and while you are at it figure out why GON had so many 90s last year 

The max temps in forested areas are often significantly affected by transpirational cooling - my place for example.  Last summer's tops was 88, and I've not hit 90 since June 2005.  That's why the co-op instruments are supposed to be sufficiently distant from heavy duty forest to avoid that effect.  It's real, for those living in it, just like the higher dews in such places, but not representative of the airmass as a whole.

[CoastalWx]

Just now, tamarack said:

The max temps in forested areas are often significantly affected by transpirational cooling - my place for example.  Last summer's tops was 88, and I've not hit 90 since June 2005.  That's why the co-op instruments are supposed to be sufficiently distant from heavy duty forest to avoid that effect.  It's real, for those living in it, just like the higher dews in such places, but not representative of the airmass as a whole.

I could give you a kiss right now. 

[USCAPEWEATHERAF]

Anyone want to meet me at Fenway Park gate c, or a game or two this summer?  First open game is for April 26th at 710pm we need to arrive at 430pm for Red Sox batting practice.

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

4 minutes ago, USCAPEWEATHERAF said:

Anyone want to meet me at Fenway Park gate c, or a game or two this summer?  First open game is for April 26th at 710pm we need to arrive at 430pm for Red Sox batting practice.

430?! Can we wear our gloves, stand by the dugout, and scream for autographs in a Boston accent?

[Hoth]

Sky is talking in New Haven. Pity this threat didn't pan out better.

[tamarack]

11 hours ago, nzucker said:

 

And these Fishing&Game fines have gotten out of control. My dad got fined $75 for not having a lifejacket in his ROWBOAT on a mid-summer, calm day in a small lake in PA. He swims across the lake every summer. These "outdoors" fines are just a money grab and not a legitimate way to promote safety. Also, using YouTube is highly inappropriate and would be doubtful tactics in a court of law.

The first two paragraphs (which I deleted only for space reasons) are reasonable, but you lost me with this one, especially the broad-brush slam that I bolded.  Tell that to the warden who just had to notify the family of the non-lifejacketed guy he helped fish out of the lake.  Maine has a dozen or more boating fatalities from drowning each year, and it's very rare when a victim has a lifejacket. 

If that warden who fined your father knew him and his swimming ability, a warning would've seemed more appropriate, but one shouldn't expect every warden to know that.  Not sure what PA law is, but in Maine one must have a PFD in the boat, and for kids 10 and under on larger boats, it must be worn.  Just tossing one in the boat should not be that difficult, and if that calm day turns into a surprise squall, it's a nice thing to have handy.  In 60+ years of boating (longer, but solo required a swim-across-the-60-acre-lake to qualify) I've never unintentionally capsized a watercraft, but there's always a first time. 

 

How is a B- disappointing?  C- may be disappointing.

See my back yard for 2014-15, which I gave a B- despite 125% average snowfall, the Jan 27-28 blizzard, and the first 10"+ Nov storm of my experience.  As a poet once said, "Of all sad words of tongue or pen, these are the saddest, 'it might have been.'"  A winter that 4 times had events verifying at less than 15% of the low end of forecast range is unlikely to earn a good grade.  Think of the kid who gets a nice crisp $20 bill at Christmas, then watches all the siblings get Benjamins.

[Baroclinic Zone]

[OceanStWx]

14 hours ago, nzucker said:

I don't think there should be a fine if the people involved demonstrated the necessary precautions: spotters, a modified sled, wet suits, etc. Not to mention it's been like 70F lately so the threat of hypothermia is greatly reduced from a normal winter. What they did was probably no more risky than some of the ski runs attempted out west (heliskiing, snowcat, etc); it was probably no more risky than drinking and smoking cigarettes every day...and yet we don't criminalize those behaviors. 

I don't take issue with GoFundMe, either. If the community as a whole believes the activity was reasonably safe and conducted with a modicum of precaution, why shouldn't they pay the fine for those that did the stunt? NNE has always been a place for outdoorsmanship, extreme sports, challenge against the elements, etc...people respect that.

And these Fishing&Game fines have gotten out of control. My dad got fined $75 for not having a lifejacket in his ROWBOAT on a mid-summer, calm day in a small lake in PA. He swims across the lake every summer. These "outdoors" fines are just a money grab and not a legitimate way to promote safety. Also, using YouTube is highly inappropriate and would be doubtful tactics in a court of law.

They should be fined because they broke the law. If I'm driving Jeff Gordon's car down 95, wearing my fire suit and restraints, and I'm clocked at 150, I should get a fine too. 

And I should just start GoFundMe pages for traffic tickets, late credit card payments, etc. Why be responsible for anything I do?

And Tamarack covered it, but for these fish & game officers that have to do the ugly work of recovering casualties it's not out of control. In the end these laws are in place to protect people from doing dangerous things, but it's convenient to say they are just a money grab so you can continue to do what you want. I have a coworker who insists that texting and driving is not inherently dangerous and no more so than changing the radio station, and he shouldn't be punished (he has multiple tickets for using a cellphone while driving) until he causes an accident while doing so.

[Damage In Tolland]

Andover , Maine  went from 79" to 30" in less than 10 days. That has to be some type of record. 

And Dryslot stopped posting 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Re: the sled skimming. I think that's great - get after it!  Would I do it now, no - maybe when I was younger.  I do think that they should pay a fine if they need to be rescued for breaking the law and unnecessarily risk first responder lives, but also don't think F&G should waste time and money after the fact trying to hunt these folks down just to fine them. If they catch them on the spot, fine, they lost and should have to pay the fine.  And if they can get funding via gofundme to pay the fine, good for them/who cares?! Blame the folks funding the gofundme page...