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December 2016 Discussion & Observations


bluewave

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31 minutes ago, dmillz25 said:

La nina looking like la nada right now. Btw the gefs look nice

I disagree. Still a weak La Niña and a very favorable pattern for trades upcoming. That said, even if it were to go cool-neutral this winter, there is no difference between that or weak La Niña as far as the pattern is concerned. It's the same thing for the long wave pattern. Cool neutral would not change the effects that a weak Niña would have 

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Let's face it I'm whining worse than Jim Harbaugh, but I can't hold it in.

This November will now make it 17 months in a row of above normal temperatures.

The last month below normal in KNYC was June 2015 and that was a whooping 0.2 degrees below normal. This is really getting tough to take. Let's not also forget this is measured against the 30 year average from 1981-2010 which is the highest average temperature ever recorded.

Very, very discouraging.

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The forcing mechanism for the poleward dateline ridging is present (e.g., retracted jet/low GWO, Rossby wave trains via -VP), and this should persist for at least a couple weeks. However, what will be the mechanism for -NAO initiation and subsequently maintenance? The most integral determinants of NAO modulation are not conducive for protracted blocking. The most favorable signal we have presently -- in addition to the Aleutian ridge forcing -- is the repressed stratospheric vortex condition. That being said, the default at this time of year is rapid polar night jet intensification due to the perpetual darkness and thermal gradients; in the absence of robust perturbation and wave driving, the vortex will strengthen (and strengthen it will do). Consequently, throughout the 2 week forecast period, we note that the ECMWF ensembles are generally suggestive of a near neutral NAM/NAO, possibly even slightly positive by week 2. My winter outlook idea was for the mid dec-early jan period offering windows, but we will need AO/NAO cooperation in order to achieve anything greater than light accumulations for the coast. For those who remember the ECMWF ensembles from several days ago -- I didn't save them, but the Dec 1-10 period now features predominately near to above normal heights along the East Coast. 60F will occur again in about a week. For those expecting a cold to very cold December, we will likely enter mid December with a positive departure for the East Coast stations. That usually doesn't bode well for a very cold December. I expected near normal, and I'm fine with that for now. The poleward ridge will effectuate some significant CONUS cooling which should bleed east in waves, but resistance will be robust in the East due to largely insufficient downstream geopotential height rises. I see quite a few posts noting that the pattern is improving. It is -- and this could be somewhat semantics/phraseology -- but the resultant pattern could be more painful, along the lines of Nina-esque Decembers in which most of the country is cold coupled with mostly unfavorably tracking cyclones. We can guarantee that Dec 1-10th is inland runner/cutter prone, and I would say if today's D10-15 ECMWF ensembles are reliable, that pattern could also produce an inland runner fairly easily. I still think we'll get snow (by we'll I mean the coast) in the second half of December, but the extent to which the pattern is snowy will be highly dependent upon the Arctic/Atlantic. Otherwise, it's an interior wintry pattern overall. I wouldn't expect anything more than maybe a very light event before the 15th at the coast.

 

What do I want to see? I'd like to see renewed attacks on the stratospheric vortex, which I don't foresee right now, but that can change. At this time of year, you can't kick the vortex once and expect zonal reversal; you need incessant perturbation.

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12 hours ago, uncle W said:

most of the cold Decembers had a negative nao...Most of the warm Decembers had a positive nao...I didn't do the math yet but the exceptions are...Cold Decembers with a positive monthly nao are 1955 barely...1960 barely...1980...1983 barely...1983 had the most positive nao...The warm Decembers with a negative nao are...1953...1996...2001...

the 15 most negative nao Decembers have an average temperature of 34.4 and 5.9" of snow...The fifteen most positive nao Decembers have an average temperature of 41.1 and 1.9" of snow...The biggest snowfall for the positive years is 5.0" in 2013...The biggest snowfall for the negative years is 20.0" in 2010...

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Monday Morning isnt terribly far away for multiple runs now Euro and GFS been showing some snow..am I missing something? Is discussion on this storm taking place in another thread??. I have heard discussion on a couple of weather forums that we maybe looking at something potentially significant

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15 minutes ago, nyblizz44 said:

Monday Morning isnt terribly far away for multiple runs now Euro and GFS been showing some snow..am I missing something? Is discussion on this storm taking place in another thread??. I have heard discussion on a couple of weather forums that we maybe looking at something potentially significant

Eh not significant more like minor

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20 minutes ago, nyblizz44 said:

Monday Morning isnt terribly far away for multiple runs now Euro and GFS been showing some snow..am I missing something? Is discussion on this storm taking place in another thread??. I have heard discussion on a couple of weather forums that we maybe looking at something potentially significant

Euro is  < 1" for anyone not far NW of 84 and GFS nothing south of 84

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36 minutes ago, snywx said:

The potential is there for something interesting for the interior on Tuesday. 12z GFS now pops a 998 @ hr132 just off the Delmarva

 

29 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

Was just gonna post this, some areas north of 84 stay mostly snow/mix 

Yea, there's something to look at, what I like the most is multiple precip chances.  It would be nice to continue denting the drought and work on turning that precip into frozen.  

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Just now, IrishRob17 said:

 

Yea, there's something to look at, what I like the most is multiple precip chances.  It would be nice to continue denting the drought and work on turning that precip into frozen.  

Agree. Eventually the worm will turn. I think the interior get a big winter. A good amount of redevelopers off the coast and swfe this winter 

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4 hours ago, bluewave said:

The bottom line is that warmer than normal Decembers have dominated the last 30 years independent of whether it's an El Nino, La Nina, or neutral year.

 

NYC December temperature departures for the last 30 years:

2015...+13.1

2014...+3.0

2013...+1.0

2012...+4.0

2011...+6.0

2010...-4.5

2009...-1.4

2008...+0.8

2007...-0.3

2006...+6.3

2005...-2.0

2004...+1.1

2003...+0.3

2002...-1.3

2001...+7.5

2000...-5.5

1999...+3.4

1998...+6.6

1997...+1.7

1996...+4.7

1995...-4.3

1994...+5.6

1993...+0.7

1992...+1.7

1991...+3.4

1990...+6.4

1989...-10.3

1988...-0.3

1987...+3.3

1986...+2.8

 

 

That is about 1.5 above the so - called normal for the last 30 years! Thus it should be  considered the new normal for today.

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 A look back: December 2015:

Mean temperature: 50.8° (previous warmest: 44.1°, 2001)

Record high maximum temperatures: 5

Record high minimum temperatures: 7

Days with low temperatures of 40° or above: 23 (old record: 14, 1982)

Days with low temperatures of 50° or above: 11 (old record: 5, 1982, 1998)

Days with high temperatures of 50° or above: 24 (old record: 19, 1891)

Days with high temperatures of 60° or above: 11 (old record: 8, 1998)

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1 hour ago, nyblizz44 said:

Monday Morning isnt terribly far away for multiple runs now Euro and GFS been showing some snow..am I missing something? Is discussion on this storm taking place in another thread??. I have heard discussion on a couple of weather forums that we maybe looking at something potentially significant

I don't know who is saying it looks like a significant snow for NYC and the immediate suburbs but they are lying. The models have literally 0 snow for those areas

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1 hour ago, bluewave said:

The only 4 winters that the interior did better than the coast since 2000 were 2001-2002, 2006-2007, 2007-2008, and 2011-2012.

They were all +EPO dominant winters.

2 La Ninas

1 El Nino

1 neutral

I guess the less blocking there is it's better for the interior. All those years were still below average snowfall wise for northern Pa except 2007-2008

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