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Winter 2016-2017 Medium/Long Range Discussion


Hoosier

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9 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

00z Euro has much more of a snow component than the GFS.  Crippling band of ice again.  

Do you have ice output? Just curious some of the values. Just having a guess looking at the maps, I think it is pretty significant here.

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7 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Do you have ice output? Just curious some of the values. Just having a guess looking at the maps, I think it is pretty significant here.

There's an enormous band of a quarter inch or greater (hundreds of miles wide). Including a band of 2"+ in parts of IL westward.

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The one thing that is becoming more plausible is the crazy strong polar ridge and copious amounts of moisture.  Pretty consistent trend so far on most of the models even this far out, not to say it can't change.   But one thing I've noticed also is, if this does pan out, as this high finally moves out it's going to leave a vacuum cleaner sucking up warm air from the gulf with temps possibly in the mid 50's at least as far north as IN MI border, maybe even a shot at 60 or more south of I70.  That's just nuts for January.

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3 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Eurowx.com

The ice map looks underdone on the northern end, so I added on, but even taking it verbatim has probably close to 200 miles wide of a quarter inch+.

Yeah, sucks Weatherbell doesn't have Ice output, or point soundings. About the only things they don't have though lol.

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6 hours ago, Stebo said:

Yeah, sucks Weatherbell doesn't have Ice output, or point soundings. About the only things they don't have though lol.

While it doesn't have an accumulated ice option, the wxbell  ECMWF 0.10° Regional Surface page has an option for ptype.  It will give you a good idea of various ptype accumulations as you toggle through the hrs.  Just cross reference what the QPF forecast was for a given area/time.

One thing I will say about the EC ptype is that it seems to show an unusual lack of sleet.  925mb temps are well below freezing in about the northern half of the forecast freezing rain band at each time period.  To me that would indicate more sleet in the northern half of the displayed ZR band than ZR.  Still a potentially devastating ice storm showing up in the long range on both of the main globals, but it may be a bit more localized than what they are showing at this point.

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I have a lot of respect for Todd Holsten at IWX.  He is a seasoned met to doesn't hype events, so when he honks, my ears perk up.  This raises my concern level from a 3 to a 5.

Thereafter most significant sw disturbance expected to break off out
of nepac gyre and dig well south into nrn Mexico by next weekend.
Strong ridging steering through the nrn lakes and swd suppression of
sfc frontal zone south of the OH river spells trouble here. While
notable differences exist with intensity/placement of low baroclinic
zone...EC/GFS share remarkable agreement aloft through early Sat
before diverging which lends increasing confidence of a potential
significant snow and/or ice storm this weekend. Thus little argument
with ramping model based blended pops through next weekend. 

 

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2 hours ago, cyclone77 said:

While it doesn't have an accumulated ice option, the wxbell  ECMWF 0.10° Regional Surface page has an option for ptype.  It will give you a good idea of various ptype accumulations as you toggle through the hrs.  Just cross reference what the QPF forecast was for a given area/time.

One thing I will say about the EC ptype is that it seems to show an unusual lack of sleet.  925mb temps are well below freezing in about the northern half of the forecast freezing rain band at each time period.  To me that would indicate more sleet in the northern half of the displayed ZR band than ZR.  Still a potentially devastating ice storm showing up in the long range on both of the main globals, but it may be a bit more localized than what they are showing at this point.

Didn't know about that, thanks for the find.

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4 hours ago, blackrock said:

Sure am looking for an end to this trough in the west/ridge in the east pattern at some point soon. Long range GFS is ugly, with more of the same obnoxious thaws.

Understatement.

As long as we are in this pattern, systems will almost always screw the entire subforum. 

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Eyeballing the last few days of January into early February for another -EPO cold dump. If we keep getting cold shots it'll eventually snow again. In the meantime the torch next week will try to thaw some of the ice that has developed on the Great Lakes. 



The long range pattern looks almost as bad as it gets on all the ensembles with a deep AK vortex, 2011-12esque. I suppose with Canada and the Northern Plains as cold as they have been, there may be just enough cold air for a part of the sub to cash in if things align just right, but that overall is a very hostile look for winter prospects if the ensembles verify.
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Looking great for 4-8" across the GTA tomorrow night into Tuesday before it transitions over to rain.

Amounts will be closer to 4" near the Lake and 5-7" 401 and north. Could be closer to 8" locally in/around NE GTA (Markham). 

Slow morning commute is on tap Tuesday. 

 

 

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