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OK/AR/KS/MO Winter 2016-17 Winter Discussion


lookingnorth

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27 minutes ago, JoMo said:

00z Euro was still colder than the other models in central OK.  A degree or two warmer in SW MO. 

Yep, unless there is a big shift NW AR, E OK, and far S MO should be spared. Still... a couple of degrees will make a huge difference. Starting to look likely that north of say US 160 that a big icing event is going to take place.  

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14 minutes ago, KC metro said:

NWS in KC leaning towards the colder Euro for now meaning a longer duration of freezing rain. 

It is interesting to see the dichotomy in offices. NWS Wichita seems to be going with a mix of GFS and Euro, while all the neighbors are going with the Euro. Verbatim, if the Euro comes to fruition, look out. 

My suspicion is that if the Euro holds serve at 12z...we will likely see watches expanded with the afternoon packages, given the onset of winter precip would be under 48 hours (36 in others) for most areas. 

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52 minutes ago, Wx 24/7 said:

Interesting that the 12z 4KM NAM is trending toward the EURO in terms of temps in SW MO and NW AR. Not sure about OK. 

All of the NAM's showed a fairly significant cold trend at 12z in OK. Basically keeps the entire OKC metro below freezing through at least 00z Saturday. Previous runs had the freezing line shifting fairly quickly northwards.

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Springfield NWS has been bitten by this before. The NE flow usually keeps a constant supply of lower dewpoints (for wetbulbing) and colder air advecting into their forecast area. Rain north of the front usually keeps the front farther south as well. 

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10 minutes ago, JoMo said:

Springfield NWS has been bitten by this before. The NE flow usually keeps a constant supply of lower dewpoints (for wetbulbing) and colder air advecting into their forecast area. Rain north of the front usually keeps the front farther south as well. 

Do you think the watch should be further south? 

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3 minutes ago, JoMo said:

No idea. I mean it's possible they might, once the event gets closer. We're talking a degree or two making the difference between ice and rain.

I think this is a situation where county-wide advisories and warnings are a bit misleading. You could have a situation where the northern half of, for example, Stone County MO meets the criteria but the southern half doesn't. I think where the NWS has the watch right now is a good placement. I do think that it is subject to shifting based on what 00z evening runs and 12z morning runs tomorrow show. Looks like it may take that long before things are fully sampled, according to a local met. 

I will be interested to see what Tulsa does. They have a tough call to make. OKC is out now with a watch for much of their forecast area, including the greater OKC metro and Lawton. 

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2 hours ago, Wx 24/7 said:

Interesting that the 12z 4KM NAM is trending toward the EURO in terms of temps in SW MO and NW AR. Not sure about OK. 

and we are now getting into the NAM's wheelhouse.  I wouldn't give the NAM a second thought at 84 hours, but we are now within 48 hours so it is time to start considering it... especially when it's in league with the Euro.    

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14 minutes ago, NJ_Ken said:

and we are now getting into the NAM's wheelhouse.  I wouldn't give the NAM a second thought at 84 hours, but we are now within 48 hours so it is time to start considering it... especially when it's in league with the Euro.    

The NAM has actually been about as consistent with the EURO even at 84 hour leads for this event. I've been mildly impressed. Whether it's right or not remains to be seen though...

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OUN has put up watches for a big chunk of their forecast area, pretty much the I-44 corridor and everything north and west.  Based on some of their other products, it would appear that they think the more serious icing won't start until 20 miles or so north and west of I-44 but, as they should, they are being cautious for now until this forecast becomes clearer.   

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5 minutes ago, Wx 24/7 said:

Very interesting.  I don't know anything about the WRF but the temps shown there are as plausible as any other scenario.  This pushes the front right up to the Boston Mountains and struggles to move it much further south.  Could be an outlier at this point but worth watching the trend over the next 24 hours.  

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