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Winter 2016-2017 Speculation and Discussion


AlaskaETC

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Why can't we ever get back-to-back moderate or strong El Ninos? It just seems to be hard to maintain El Ninos period. But La Ninas can stay for years. Why is that?

 

Science is mostly undecided why the difference. I read about it a couple years ago but don't clearly remember the paper. 

 

My guess is strong easterly trades are easier to maintain because that's the natural direction along the equator. Nino's are weak or reversal of the trades so it would seem logical that it's harder to maintain something like that. 

 

This will be an interesting year to see if we flip to an official Nina. It's common with strong + events but there aren't very many so it's hard to jump on the Nina train just cuz. 

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The most important stat...snowfall...

58-59: 4.9

59-60: 24.3

66-67: 37.1

78-79: 37.7

80-81: 4.5

83-84: 8.6

92-93: 11.7

05-06: 13.6

58-59 was tecnically a Nino but a really weak one so I tossed it in just for fun. Maybe I should scratch it because the snow sucked.

where is 95-96 after strong 95 nino
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The most important stat...snowfall...

58-59: 4.9

59-60: 24.3

66-67: 37.1

78-79: 37.7

80-81: 4.5

83-84: 8.6

92-93: 11.7

05-06: 13.6

58-59 was tecnically a Nino but a really weak one so I tossed it in just for fun. Maybe I should scratch it because the snow sucked.

Why those years?

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I picked non ninas following a nino. Only because I'm not sold on the sure nina thing. Which could be wrong. Luckily we have 9 months to discuss.

Ok.

I have a hard time with enso and seeing a connection to the quality of the winter.

95-96, 13-14, great. Compare to ...

08-09, 11-12 awful. Very comparable numbers.

14-15 great. Compare to ....

90-91 awful. Very comparable numbers.

I think there are other more important factors at play. I just don't know what they are.

We've been damned unlucky this past month. I don't know that I can blame the Nino for all of our troubles.

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Spring is a terrible time to use guidance for long range enso stuff. Clarity doesn't emerge until we get past the spring barrier and even then...

ill take a weak La  Nina. JB says he thinks we are going to a strong Nina which would be brutal

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  • 3 weeks later...

Latest ECMWF plumes aren't vigorous with crashing into mod nina territory. Would be -.5+/- for a JAS trimonthly. 


 


ps2png-atls09-95e2cf679cd58ee9b4db4dd119


 


Early spring is a really bad time to trust long range enso guidance but it does bring up the conversation...are we headed towards a mod or strong Nina or will next winter be more in line with some of the neutral following Nino seasons?


 


Obviously we root for neutral or weak nina. As a whole, winters following a mod or strong nino are a total mixed bag. Some real clunkers but some decent ones as well.


 


58-59: steaming pile of dung but also held onto weak nino status


 


66-67: kick ass. Cold neutral with lots of snow


 


73-74: good enough. Strong nina with slightly above normal snow


 


83-84: another stinker. Cold neutral enso


 


87-88: decent but vet day had a lot to do with it. I'm only throwing this one in there because it was on the heels of back to back nino's. 


 


92-93: below normal but winter did exist at times. I don't like this year for any analog because of the volcano. Really throws a wrench in the works


 


98-99: pretty crappy for DJF but the march snow saved it from being a total disaster. Mod-strong nina. 


 


I don't think years following 02-03 or 09-10 add much value but follow the same general theme. Enough snow and cold to not consider them to be bad winters but nothing great. 10-11 had a real shot at some nice totals but some pretty ugly luck got in the way. Might not have been luck as much as typical nina miller B screwjobs. Maybe we were lucky we got the Jan storm. Personally, I hated the winter after the boxing day gut punch. Being a mega snow town and then experiencing the post holiday disaster really took its toll on me. 


 


The last few years have certainly had a 60's type of vibe. Good luck and lots of snow. I'll go with 66-67 as my top analog lol. 


 


One good thing about Nina's is that they are generally front loaded if they can produce. A good region wide December storm would be nice. 


 


Looking back at the limited data pretty much paints a picture of DCA getting 10-15" with equal chances of total disaster or solid. 


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Latest ECMWF plumes aren't vigorous with crashing into mod nina territory. Would be -.5+/- for a JAS trimonthly. 

 

ps2png-atls09-95e2cf679cd58ee9b4db4dd119

 

Early spring is a really bad time to trust long range enso guidance but it does bring up the conversation...are we headed towards a mod or strong Nina or will next winter be more in line with some of the neutral following Nino seasons?

 

Obviously we root for neutral or weak nina. As a whole, winters following a mod or strong nino are a total mixed bag. Some real clunkers but some decent ones as well.

 

58-59: steaming pile of dung but also held onto weak nino status

 

66-67: kick ass. Cold neutral with lots of snow

 

73-74: good enough. Strong nina with slightly above normal snow

 

83-84: another stinker. Cold neutral enso

 

87-88: decent but vet day had a lot to do with it. I'm only throwing this one in there because it was on the heels of back to back nino's. 

 

92-93: below normal but winter did exist at times. I don't like this year for any analog because of the volcano. Really throws a wrench in the works

 

98-99: pretty crappy for DJF but the march snow saved it from being a total disaster. Mod-strong nina. 

 

I don't think years following 02-03 or 09-10 add much value but follow the same general theme. Enough snow and cold to not consider them to be bad winters but nothing great. 10-11 had a real shot at some nice totals but some pretty ugly luck got in the way. Might not have been luck as much as typical nina miller B screwjobs. Maybe we were lucky we got the Jan storm. Personally, I hated the winter after the boxing day gut punch. Being a mega snow town and then experiencing the post holiday disaster really took its toll on me. 

 

The last few years have certainly had a 60's type of vibe. Good luck and lots of snow. I'll go with 66-67 as my top analog lol. 

 

One good thing about Nina's is that they are generally front loaded if they can produce. A good region wide December storm would be nice. 

 

Looking back at the limited data pretty much paints a picture of DCA getting 10-15" with equal chances of total disaster or solid. 

 

but w/o the -NAO

otoh, CFS2 ain't so gung ho on a NINA

it did pretty well predicting this year's super NINO, so maybe it could be closer to right (warmer) than the Euro

either way, I'm mentally prepared for a disaster winter, so close to normal will feel like a snowy year

nino34Sea.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not much different that last Dec.

 

CFS and CanSips are both pretty warm and not a great h5 look for DJF. Obviously there is limited skill and value with huge lead times. We won't really have a good benchmark to guess on until ENSO is figured out. It still has a long ways to go before neg anomalies start showing in the ENSO regions. I'd be perfectly happy with a neg neutral enso this winter. Anything less than -1C anomalies wouldn't be reason to worry. 

 

anomnight.4.7.2016.gif

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