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Mountain West Discussion


Chinook

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Good catch, Raindancewx. Multiple models and ensembles are pointing to a closed 500mb low in NV, UT and CO, or possibly NM in about a week. Could be a stormy pattern with heavy snow above 8000ft, or possibly affecting populated areas like Salt Lake or Denver.

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That is a very interesting point. I hope they will resolve it.

Not to be annoying or anything, but the Denver official NWS office is in Boulder, and as you can see here, the climate/weather sites in Denver are spread over the city. The Denver NWS forecasters are in a large NOAA building close to the CU campus in Boulder. (This building also houses the ESRL-PSD and the Space Weather Prediction Center) The NWS operates the KFTG radar at KFTG airport. There is the TDEN radar, which is a few miles from KFTG, but not within the borders of DIA. KDEN weather observation (at DIA) is most likely operated by the FAA contract observer(s) there. The upper-air sounding location, called KDNR, is located at the old Stapleton Airport. Weather records were kept at Stapleton Airport until 1994. Before Stapleton was built, I believe weather records were kept downtown.

 

There's kind of a long-term climate problem in all of this. Downtown, Stapleton, and DIA all have kept weather records in different years. The upslope snow/rain events (and sometimes summertime rain) have greater rain/snow near downtown, by several percent. So the climate at DIA is drier. It is also less windy and more moist (higher RH) in the urban area, compared to dusty DIA.

 

 

What a mess. Seems like nobody bothered to tell the people who make policy that there are, well, these things called mountains here. But I think also important is that we need a better automated way of measuring precip when there is wind or freezing temps involved. I imagine somebody took a core sample from the snow measuring place at DIA on 3/23. That would help.

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What a mess. Seems like nobody bothered to tell the people who make policy that there are, well, these things called mountains here. But I think also important is that we need a better automated way of measuring precip when there is wind or freezing temps involved. I imagine somebody took a core sample from the snow measuring place at DIA on 3/23. That would help.

Here is my idea for measuring precipitation. Use a class A evaporation pan to measure all precipitation. Then have a funnel to a super long inner-tube for more precise measurement. It would be 3 or 4 ft wide metal rain gauge with a 5 ft long inner tube. It would be able to collect snow, hail and rain without it bouncing out, drifting out, or getting blown out by wind. Is it crazy? A Class A evaporation pan is a metal pan the size of a kiddie pool. These pans can be used to measure precipitation- they're built for measuring evaporation to a high degree of accuracy. When precipitation falls (and evaporation doesn't happen) the water level rise in the pool is equal to the precipitation. Now, if you didn't mess around with keeping water in the pool, it might just be a giant rain gauge, better for gathering all types of precipitation. It is also possible that it would collect leaves in the fall, which would be detrimental.

 

The NWS-WPC web page may look like this in the future:

 

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/para/#page=sum

 

The upcoming upper level trough in the West may provide 1.0" of QPF to several mountain ranges in several states, and possibly over 1.75" for eastern Colorado, within the next 7 days. The WPC 7-day QPF even has 2.50" for the KS/CO border.

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Here is my idea for measuring precipitation. Use a class A evaporation pan to measure all precipitation. Then have a funnel to a super long inner-tube for more precise measurement. It would be 3 or 4 ft wide metal rain gauge with a 5 ft long inner tube. It would be able to collect snow, hail and rain without it bouncing out, drifting out, or getting blown out by wind. Is it crazy? A Class A evaporation pan is a metal pan the size of a kiddie pool. These pans can be used to measure precipitation- they're built for measuring evaporation to a high degree of accuracy. When precipitation falls (and evaporation doesn't happen) the water level rise in the pool is equal to the precipitation. Now, if you didn't mess around with keeping water in the pool, it might just be a giant rain gauge, better for gathering all types of precipitation. It is also possible that it would collect leaves in the fall, which would be detrimental.

 

The NWS-WPC web page may look like this in the future:

 

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/para/#page=sum

 

The upcoming upper level trough in the West may provide 1.0" of QPF to several mountain ranges in several states, and possibly over 1.75" for eastern Colorado, within the next 7 days. The WPC 7-day QPF even has 2.50" for the KS/CO border.

I like this idea! Would love to see a study of a contraption like this. Could put a coarse screen over it during leaf season. If you can build it in the next two-three days, could have a nice trial (though perhaps the wind variable would not be a lot for this one).

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Any blossoms or leaves in Estes yet? Could be bad for them - not temps, but weight of snow. Here, I am actually hoping that we don't get much snow. Spring is in full swing and more than a few inches could be a nightmare. Our lilacs have not had decent blossoms in 2+ years because of late freezes, and they are looking really good to bloom late this weekend...

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Any blossoms or leaves in Estes yet? Could be bad for them - not temps, but weight of snow. Here, I am actually hoping that we don't get much snow. Spring is in full swing and more than a few inches could be a nightmare. Our lilacs have not had decent blossoms in 2+ years because of late freezes, and they are looking really good to bloom late this weekend...

 

There is not much blooming yet.  I did see some buttercup-like blossoms up in the moraine part of the park last week.  Over the past few days the grass has begun to green up but the trees haven't.  The snow is fine by me and kind of welcome as a nice parting shot, but we'll see if this performs or not...

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Similar pattern to last month... though not as sudden, 00z models (what I can get, GFS/NAM/WPC percentiles) all continue to trend   cold- maybe a hair colder- with QPF around 2 inches consistently. WPC 25th-50th-75th percentiles for snow for South Metro DEN are 7-14-22 inches respectively, with deterministic GFS saying 18 and NAM around 10. Crazy. Wonder if precip intensity with this one will dictate ptype.

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NWS gridded forecasts just keep going up. Now the NWS has 10" for Denver downtown, 11-13" Fort Collins, 46" is the max in Colorado, probably north of Estes Park. This may be one of the top storms in my lifetime. I heard on the news that Xcel energy is bringing in more workers from out of state that are ready to fix downed power lines. We really don't need more tree damage. I am watching an exciting Sharks vs. Kings game right now. Just saw 2 goals in like 10 seconds of game time. I doubt the Red Wings will give me as much playoff enjoyment as I'd like.

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I want to take a moment to do a little rant and rave. I don't know what is up with this package of the GFS (2014's upgrade). It sometimes has 2m-temp and 10m-wind predictions that have sharp (but small-ish) differences by latitude and longitude lines. It has this problem at relatively flat areas of the US and also north Africa. I know it's something on the near-surface modeling, whether it be land-surface model or boundary layer physics. A new GFS package is coming out in a month. This 13-km GFS has done some weird things over the last 2 years

 

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12z models a bit warmer, just as wet. NAM has 4-10" across most of the Metro area.

Fort Collins has a gradient of like 4-18" within a block or two. Must be that dry ice plant just west of I-25. Yeah, that's it.

Right on the edge here in western Broomfield County...I think with the heavy precip tomorrow morning through evening we get pounded. First and only call...14-17" here, 10-12" at DIA.

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When this sort of storm happened at the same time of the year in 2013, there weren't any leaves or flowers on the trees.

At least in the north Denver metro area, there are only a few ornamental plantings that have any substantial blooms or leaf out so far. 

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